Gas prices :: Montana

[Grizlaw]

I read an interesting article a month or so ago about hybrids -- unfortunately I don't remember which publication it was in and I can't find it right now. However, the basic point of the article was that, while the current hybrid technology could be used to produce much more efficient cars, most of the hybrid cars currently being produced are actually only slightly more efficient than their gasoline-powered counterparts. The reason, according to the article, was that manufacturers so far have largely chosen to use the technology to design hybrid engines that are more powerful than their gas-powered counterparts, rather than to design more efficient engines that might sacrifice a little in terms of power.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting. Apparently consumer demand for fast, powerful engines still rules, even among those who choose to buy hybrids.

[SonomaCat]

Well, if we all drove hybrids (and other more fuel efficient vehicles) in six years, we would use a lot less fuel in six years than we would if we didn't drive hybrids, so I'm not sure where you are going with that statement.

what im saying is that if we all drove hybreds we would be in the same situation gas price wise like we are now.

we need to develop new sources of energy...now

I see ... agreed.

[BelgradeBobcat]

This is an interesting topic. I might have felt differently a couple of years ago-but now that I ride bike a lot my paradigm has shifted.

Rising gas prices have a very negative effect on that redneck in his V-16 mega diesel pulling a trailer full of ATV's and motorcycles that buzzed by me with inches to spare-because God forbid he slow down for a couple of seconds and pass with a little bit of consideration for my safety. Or that mom with one kid who slides that building on wheels SUV right past my shoulder without so much as moving over a couple of feet in her own lane-even when noone is coming the other way. When gas prices go way up I just think about these scum bags of society and smile.

But I do feel for the building contractor (friend of mine) who told me is costs him $100 every 4 or 5 days to fill up and he has no choice but to raise his prices. Thus I don't get too smug.

I think it was Cat Grad who pointed out-Billings and Eastern Montana boomed in the gas crises in the '70's so maybe the rising prices aren't necessarily a bad thing for Montana-though it's crippling to the farmers I suppose.

As far as global warming-I'm all for it! It just puts us that much closer to the beach!

I think in reality we've been terribly spoiled by our gas prices over the years. Gas still costs less than bottled water for crying out loud!

[Hell's Bells]

Well, if we all drove hybrids (and other more fuel efficient vehicles) in six years, we would use a lot less fuel in six years than we would if we didn't drive hybrids, so I'm not sure where you are going with that statement.

what im saying is that if we all drove hybreds we would be in the same situation gas price wise like we are now.

we need to develop new sources of energy...now

I see ... agreed.

I am going to frame that little message up and place it in my computer room...this is a first

on the other hand i am going to dream of driving a diesel making my own Biodiesel....mmmm goto love the smell of french fries!!

['93HonoluluCat]

We wouldn't have to care whether they liked us if we didn't need their oil, though. Sans oil, there's no reason why we can't just let them live in the stone age (as without oil, they have no wealth) and car bomb each other into oblivion without getting us involved. Outside of our need for their oil, the Western world would have no interest whatsoever with the Middle East, and I think most everyone (them and us) would be perfectly content with that solution.

I don't think the situation is as simple as that. Muslims and Christians haven't got along...well, since the Crusades, if not before.

Deciding not to buy their oil is not going to change that. The Muslim extremeists would not like us even if we sold out Israel tomorrow. We just happen to be a great focus of their angst and aggression. Oil and Israel are convenient excuses.

[SonomaCat]

We wouldn't have to care whether they liked us if we didn't need their oil, though. Sans oil, there's no reason why we can't just let them live in the stone age (as without oil, they have no wealth) and car bomb each other into oblivion without getting us involved. Outside of our need for their oil, the Western world would have no interest whatsoever with the Middle East, and I think most everyone (them and us) would be perfectly content with that solution.

I don't think the situation is as simple as that. Muslims and Christians haven't got along...well, since the Crusades, if not before.

Deciding not to buy their oil is not going to change that. The Muslim extremeists would not like us even if we sold out Israel tomorrow. We just happen to be a great focus of their angst and aggression. Oil and Israel are convenient excuses.

But if we don't have a presence in the Middle East, they won't want to kill us (here, anyway). Out of sight, out of mind. They aren't trying to spread their religion to the U.S. via terrorism -- they just want us out of Muslim countries, and are using terrorism to try to accomplish that goal. I think we would be happy to comply if there was nothing there that we needed.

It's true that Muslims and Christians have rarely gotten along well, but the U.S. isn't a Christian nation (meaning our government isn't [supposed to be] trying to push Christianity on other nations) -- we are a secular Western nation whose liberal influences in the Middle East are pissing off the extremists, who want to keep their women oppressed and their people ignorant.

I guess it would be interesting to see if, absent our need for oil, whether we would still care about the people there from a freedom and humanitarian perspective, or if we would dismiss the entire region and let them be as backwards as they (extremists) wanna be.

Israel would still be a concern as well, of course.

Of course, the genie is out of the bottle in term of Western culture and the ideas of various forms of freedom that don't jive with extremist Islam, so their mission is doomed from the start. But, unfortunately, the nature of extremist religions isn't one of pragmatism, so even though the hope for winning the war is nill, the promise of eternal bliss in the afterlife will keep them wiring themselves to bombs for the foreseeable future.

[mquast53000]

Before BAC gets us off topic too much, here is a good link about cars and their pollution and gas mileage.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/all-rank-05.htm

[Grizlaw]

Before BAC gets us off topic too much, here is a good link about cars and their pollution and gas mileage.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/all-rank-05.htm

Interesting. Not to hijack the thread, but I haven't shopped for a car for a few years, so I don't know much about the new hybrids. Does anyone know why it is that the fuel efficiency for some of the models is actually better in the city than on the highway?

[SonomaCat]

Before BAC gets us off topic too much, here is a good link about cars and their pollution and gas mileage.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/all-rank-05.htm

Interesting. Not to hijack the thread, but I haven't shopped for a car for a few years, so I don't know much about the new hybrids. Does anyone know why it is that the fuel efficiency for some of the models is actually better in the city than on the highway?

At slower speeds, hybrids run on their electric battery and motor (which is charged by using the kinetic energy of the car and captured by the application of the brakes).

At higher speeds, though, the car runs exclusively on its gas engine.

It's a good car for commute driving, but not necessarily all that helpful for somebody who spends most of their time driving 75.

[iaafan]

The key feature of a hybrid is that it shuts off when idling at an intersection (or in a traffic jam). It's on, but does not activate the electric motor until the driver touches the accelerator. Then when it does take off it moves through the intersection on electric only until it's out of the intersection. This idling is one of the main components behind air quality below federal standards. Idling concentrates high amounts of pollutants in one area. Hybrid cars decrease this significantly. The engine alternates between gas and electric motor as needed all while pulling power into the electric system from other sources, such as the brakes. While the savings to the individual may be a wash (I don't think it will be in the near future as hybrids become more cost effective to make), the savings to the planet (namely large urban areas) will be significant.