FYI: Fuel Prices

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:19 pm

For those of you who don't know, I own a gas station/convenience store in Kalispell. I sell Conoco fuels which I buy from a distributor (wholesaler, if you will) who sells it to me a penny & a half above their cost.

Effective today, prices for the 4 products I purchase for resale are as follows (delivered to my tanks in Kalispell):

Unleaded (87 oct.) $2.775/gallon
Plus (89 oct.) $2.845/gallon
Super (91 oct.) $2.915/gallon
Clear (on-road) Diesel $2.950/gallon

NOTE: These prices are EACH 20 cents higher than they were 2 days ago.

"Big Oil" ALWAYS makes out Big Time whenever there is even the slightest "hiccup" in supply; they LOVE events like hurricane Katrina. In order to cover the anticipated higher costs they will have in the future, they use an event like Katrina to JACK the prices as quickly as possible. The thing is, they have billions of gallons of product already produced at significantly lower cost. They will make BANK on all those gallons. Eventually, supply & demand will dictate that prices & costs come down, but believe me, Big Oil will drop their prices to their distributors at a much slower rate than their costs decrease, again allowing them to realize huge profits.

Keep your eyes & ears open next year; I guarantee you that Exxon/Mobil, Conoco/Phillips, and Chevron/Texaco will all realize record profits in 2005. They always like to cry that they're simply "covering their costs" but spikes like these are ALWAYS followed by huge profits; I've been in/around the oil business since 1972 and the one thing I know, oil companies make $$$...

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:24 pm

I haven't checked the prices in SF today (normally the highest priced gas in the continental US), but I noticed that at one San Jose station I drove by, premium was a $3.25 (or somewhere in that immediate range) and regular was at $2.99.

The mystical future days of $3 gas are definitely upon us.

So El Gato, may we call you Apu?

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:50 pm

I pay 2.75 on Ft.Lewis for reg. unleaded. My parents are east of SF and pay 3.18 a gal. for the same gas. needless to say, we're not doing much traveling. this is sad, but in 1999 when my son was born i bitched that gas went up from .95 on APG to 1.05 after the hurricane. wished it was 1.05 now!

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:19 pm

I just filled my tank in anticipation of a major hike tonight or tomorrow morning. Plus, I'm going to Billings tomorrow. It was $2.47 and in some places it was already above $2.60. El G has shown that the increase will be eye popping in the morning.

El G, two things....thanks for letting people on here know about the prices. That's very cool of you. Two, since I feel we are buddies, can I get a discount.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:23 am

Tell you what Meat, I'll only mark it up 5% (10% if you use a credit card; gotta pay those damned fees).

That means Unleaded will only cost you $2.91. Deal?

(BTW, my street price is currently $2.759; you'd think I studied math at dUMb, wouldn't you?

)

For those who wonder why I'd sell below cost, it involves several issues that I don't have time to get into as I have to leave now to go open what a friend of mine refers to as "the Gold Mine"...

(Don't I wish!)

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:54 am

El_Gato wrote:Tell you what Meat, I'll only mark it up 5% (10% if you use a credit card; gotta pay those damned fees).

That means Unleaded will only cost you $2.91. Deal?

(BTW, my street price is currently $2.759; you'd think I studied math at dUMb, wouldn't you? )

For those who wonder why I'd sell below cost, it involves several issues that I don't have time to get into as I have to leave now to go open what a friend of mine refers to as "the Gold Mine"...

(Don't I wish!)

Actually, I was thinking more the mafia discount.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:01 am

El_Gato wrote:For those who wonder why I'd sell below cost, it involves several issues that I don't have time to get into

Let me guess, it's like the old joke -- you lose money on each sale, but you make it up on volume, right?

Actually, I would guess that you probably make your money on convenience store sales, and keeping gas prices competitive is a necessity to get people into your store.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:29 am

You're right, GL, as usual. I have to stay fairly close to Town Pump to keep traffic flowing onto the property, in the hopes that they'll buy Twinkies, smokes, and warm Oly!

The problem in Montana is that TP has essentially turned into the Mafia, controlling both the gas station/c-store industry & the casino industry. The sad part is that the State HELPED TP get where they are by sidestepping the legislature's intent on gaming & by loaning/giving them money to "promote" various business ventures...

Town Pump is one of the most powerful entities in the State right now, and they are using that power to dominate & destroy independent gas station/c-store and bar/casino owners across the entire state.

By the way, a little tidbit for you: I looked up the direct English translation of Osama Bin Laden and you know what it translates to?

Town Pump.

Cat-theotherwhitemeat · Post by **Cat-theotherwhitemeat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:37 am

You have warm Oly for sale?? I'm there!

My home town had a Town Pump, but she didn't cause too much trouble.

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:43 am

EL: I agree totaly with you about Town Hump...thay screw everyone and give NOTHING back to the communities that they operate in....when I was a School Supt. in Montana (before I retired and moved out of state to do the same thing) our school would create partnerships, sponsorships with all of the various businesses in town. TP ( I like the connotation of that even better!) would not support the community or school AT ALL. They even ran the boy scout christmas tree sale off of their lot!! We got them back though...that little bitterroot community was the first to get a casino lic. denied for the local Town Hump....payback is a bitch!

What station do you own?? Even though you're a cat, I will make sure to buy gas fror my boat/truck at your spot when I'm up there... I bought a new Lund from Captain's Marine this year so I am up there periodically for service,etc.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:23 pm

I named it Mulligan's Conoco as I view it as my "career do-over". It's located on Hwy 93 at the south end of town; right next to the Salvation Army thrift store, about 3 blocks south of where the highway splits around the County Courthouse.

I invite all Cats & Griz to stop by and drop as much of your hard-earned $$$ as possible! Say you saw it on Bobcat Nation and I'll only charge you double!

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:29 pm

El_Gato wrote:I named it Mulligan's Conoco as I view it as my "career do-over". It's located on Hwy 93 at the south end of town; right next to the Salvation Army thrift store, about 3 blocks south of where the highway splits around the County Courthouse.

I invite all Cats & Griz to stop by and drop as much of your hard-earned $$$ as possible! Say you saw it on Bobcat Nation and I'll only charge you double!

i think i pulled in there before....nice store

i am not trying to defend town pump but since i decided to go back to school, *i am now a second degree freshmen at MT Tech...not a school to chase the hotties at* i have found out that Town Pump, located in butte corporate offices and all, is about the only thing left standing here in town

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:01 pm

I was just watching some headline news down in the gym, and they were talking about gas prices and shortages.

One thing that I am sure aggravates retail gas sellers like El Gato, and with good reason, is the fact that everybody seems to assume that any increase in gas prices at the pump goes directly into their pockets. The newscast mentioned that a congressman (didn't catch the name or party) wanted to start an inquiry into price gouging by retailers because he became outraged when he noticed that a gas station he lives near raised its prices DURING THE COURSE OF THE DAY! I'm not exactly sure when he thinks it IS appropriate to change prices (apparently in the middle of the night), but it kind of cuts to the heart of the problem.

I guess people assume that retailers have millions of gallons of gas they purchased cheaply stashed underground, and that they are just printing money when prices go up, but as EG has told us first hand, it sounds like they are virtually running on just in time inventory, and are constantly buying new supplies at whatever price the wholesaler is charging them.

I only go on this rant because I am realizing how annoying it must be for retailers to have finger pointed at them during times like these, and I'm sure some people are downright rude about it. You definitely have my sympathy, EG -- it can't be a lot of fun to be on the receiving end of that sort of stuff.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:11 pm

My favorite part of owning my store is interacting with my customers. Over the years, I've educated most of my "regulars" with conversation and by posting the invoices I receive from my fuel supplier when times get real crazy, such as now. I also take any/every opportunity to take advantage of my ties to local media folks to get in the paper and/or on the air whenever necessary; as a matter of fact, I got on the phone with the morning guys on B98 this morning to rebut some knucklehead who had called in blasting the local retailers.

I do think a majority of folks correctly point the finger at "Big Oil" but there are sizable # who do blame retailers or at least think that our stores are owned by "Big Oil". It's surprising how many people don't understand that all I do is sell Conoco's fuel; otherwise I have NO relationship with them. I don't even have any kind of contract with Conoco; I deal with my supplier who has contractual relations with Conoco.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:09 pm

El G - why you would want to run a gas station/c store is beyond me. That has to be one of the toughest biz's in this day and age.

Not only do you compete with TP, but just wait until Safeway and Costco break into your market - maybe they already have.

Do you own your UST system? If so, the enviro regs and associated costs are fun, too.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:12 am

Bleedinbluengold wrote:El G - why you would want to run a gas station/c store is beyond me. That has to be one of the toughest biz's in this day and age.

Not only do you compete with TP, but just wait until Safeway and Costco break into your market - maybe they already have.

Do you own your UST system? If so, the enviro regs and associated costs are fun, too.

NOW you tell me!

Didn't get a Conoco price update last night before I came home; will find out this a.m. and post it here. I hope it didn't go up again, for ALL our sakes.

Street prices did jump each of the last 2 days. TP (always the lowest, so I use them for reference) went from 2.579 to 2.639 to 2.739 for unleaded 87; I'm currently at 2.799.

One thing I'd ask ALL of you to do is analyze WHO you're buying your gas from. If you're buying from any chain store like TP, Kum n Go (lmao), Flying J, or any "Big Box" retailer like Albertson's, Costco, or Safeway, PLEASE STOP IMMEDIATELY!!! Seriously, look at Kalispell right now; if you buy from TP, you're saving 6 cents per gallon versus buying from me. If you purchase 20 gallons (national average per fill is 12 gallons), you'd save a whopping 2%. When was the last time you ran out for a 2% sale? That 20 gallon purchase at TP cost you $54.78 and at my store cost you $55.98.

Gas stations made a big mistake a long time ago by posting the prices of our #1 item in huge signs right by the roadway, and now we have convinced people that a few pennies/gallon is significant.

More on all this later; I've got to get to the Gold Mine once again...

This just in:

Conoco raised my cost another 10 cents last night:

Unleaded $2.875
Plus $2.945
Super $3.015
Diesel $3.050

Also on the energy front: The Montana Public Service Commission just approved a 27% rate hike for Northwestern Energy, the company that provides natural gas for most of the state.

As energy prices skyrocket, I'm afraid inflation is about to spike as ALL product prices adjust upward to compensate. I predict within the next few months, we will be in a recession AT LEAST equal to that following 911.

Get liquid, people; get liquid fast...

Post by **rtb** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:22 am

EG: First of all, I will be back in town this weekend, so I will be sure to fill up with you on my way out of town Monday morning. Will you be in the store on Monday? The second thing that I thought you would find funny was this email that came to me this morning. If everyone follows it, it would be good news for you!!

I hear we are going to hit $3.00 a gallon by Labor Day. Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action.

This email is going around...
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May!

The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Please read it and join with us!

By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.75 for regular unleaded in my town.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50-$1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace.... not sellers.

With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas!

And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON"T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp (sic) out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people and DON"T purchase ANY gasoline from EXXON and MOBIL. That's all.

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND
KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK!

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:39 am

El_Gato wrote:
Bleedinbluengold wrote:El G - why you would want to run a gas station/c store is beyond me. That has to be one of the toughest biz's in this day and age.

Not only do you compete with TP, but just wait until Safeway and Costco break into your market - maybe they already have.

Do you own your UST system? If so, the enviro regs and associated costs are fun, too.

NOW you tell me!

Didn't get a Conoco price update last night before I came home; will find out this a.m. and post it here. I hope it didn't go up again, for ALL our sakes.

Street prices did jump each of the last 2 days. TP (always the lowest, so I use them for reference) went from 2.579 to 2.639 to 2.739 for unleaded 87; I'm currently at 2.799.

One thing I'd ask ALL of you to do is analyze WHO you're buying your gas from. If you're buying from any chain store like TP, Kum n Go (lmao), Flying J, or any "Big Box" retailer like Albertson's, Costco, or Safeway, PLEASE STOP IMMEDIATELY!!! Seriously, look at Kalispell right now; if you buy from TP, you're saving 6 cents per gallon versus buying from me. If you purchase 20 gallons (national average per fill is 12 gallons), you'd save a whopping 2%. When was the last time you ran out for a 2% sale? That 20 gallon purchase at TP cost you $54.78 and at my store cost you $55.98.

Gas stations made a big mistake a long time ago by posting the prices of our #1 item in huge signs right by the roadway, and now we have convinced people that a few pennies/gallon is significant.

More on all this later; I've got to get to the Gold Mine once again...

This just in: Conoco raised my cost another 10 cents last night:

Unleaded $2.875
Plus $2.945
Super $3.015
Diesel $3.050

Also on the energy front: The Montana Public Service Commission just approved a 27% rate hike for Northwestern Energy, the company that provides natural gas for most of the state.

As energy prices skyrocket, I'm afraid inflation is about to spike as ALL product prices adjust upward to compensate. I predict within the next few months, we will be in a recession AT LEAST equal to that following 911.

Get liquid, people; get liquid fast...

i just filled up my little two door car
spend 33 bucks
i am going to spend the rest of the day in shock

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:50 am

El_Gato wrote:
This just in: Conoco raised my cost another 10 cents last night:

Unleaded $2.875
Plus $2.945
Super $3.015
Diesel $3.050

Just of curiosity EG how often does a typical station have their tanks filled (how many days supply of gas do they typical have)?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:29 am

Like most things, there's a wide variety of combinations of tankage & usage out there.

I would say that 80% of the stores out there are receiving a tanker shipment every 3 or 4 days this time of year. Some of the bigger truck stops get fuel every day while a small, rural C-store might go over a week before needing a load. Personally, I'm getting a load every 4 days or so.

I'm hearing the "gouging" word thrown around alot right now, and quite frankly, that's bullsh!t. Today, I'm at $2.759 on unleaded; TP is at $2.739. The price I paid for the unleaded I'm selling today was $2.675; the price I would pay to replace it today would be $2.875. Given that my "replacement cost" has increased 30 cents the last 3 days, I'm going to raise my street price to $2.855 today, even though I still have product in my tank @ $2.675. So, I'll be making a WHOPPING 18 cents a gallon. Try this: At that 18 cent margin, I'm realizing a gross profit % of 6.3%. Now, I ask you, am I gouging the public? And remember that tomorrow or the next day, I'm going to need another load that will cost AT LEAST $2.875.

The only gouging going on is by Big Oil. The fact that they would jack the price up this much, this fast, is ridiculous and can't even remotely be explained away as "we're just covering our increased costs". Again, trust me, Big Oil will reap record profits from all this, as they always do when supply is impacted by something like Katrina.

The best answer right now would be for all of us to curtail any "optional" fuel use; the sooner demand drops and/or supply increases, the sooner prices will come down or, at the very least, stop increasing.

But please, don't stop drinking, smoking, or eating those Twinkies! My business couldn't afford that!

rtb, let me know about what time you'll be in & I'll make sure I'm there. I don't work the cash register on Monday (especially Labor Day) but if there's a Ford Explorer out front, you'll know I'm there: The Bobcat license plates read "L GATO". (Somebody already had El Gato, damnit!)