Ugly Americans - New Orleans

[GOKATS]

If they're looting for food and survival I don't have a problem with that- in the same situation I'd do what I had to, but to grab what you can just to take advantage of the situation I can't tolerate.

[iaafan]

It just seems like more people are up in arms with the looters than they are with the situation these people who are suffering.

[rtb]

It just seems like more people are up in arms with the looters than they are with the situation these people who are suffering.

Not only the looters but those that are suffering that are pointing fingers and finding anyone to blame. I know not everyone who is in NO is this way, but for example in today's paper there was an article about the troops arriving and most of the people being rescued were saying.."this is great, but why weren't they here earlier." If that is your first thought when being rescued you are too spolied!! Be thankful the help and support is coming and be thankful you are alive, many have lost their lives!!

I just think most of us are upset by the attitudes of a majority of the people being potrayed by the media.

Just my two cents...and more!!

[iaafan]

It took too long for these folks to get the help they needed. There is no questioning that. No one from the top down is questioning that point. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they said when they were rescued if they said something negative. I have to believe that after you've been through what they've been through, you have to be deshevelved to a point that you don't always mean what you say. I've seen similar responses right here in Montana from people who were less put out. Let's not be too critical of these people, because it is very difficult to contemplate what they've been through. They are haggard out. I wish people would just say, "Let's help 'em" and put the other BS to the side. There is too much negativity surrounding this thing. People need to just help and put there opinions about all this other stuff to the side, it isn't helping matters.

[couloir41]

the derogatory and veiled remarks made regarding welfare as it applies to the unfortunate in the gulf states are off the mark...particularly from montanans...need i remind...Montana is one of 13 or so welfare states...we receive somewhere between 1.60 and 1.80 in return for every dollar we pay in federal taxes...for literally everything we do in this wonderful state to live and recreate...as montanans we always complain (whine) when we don't get our fair "share" of "welfare handouts"...rather righteous comments agrandizing the rugged individualist "montanans" are not now and never have been in order...because we too are welfare mongers and hypocrites of a very sophisticated ilk...

for some of the more shrill commentators...recall the stone age did not end because we ran out of stones...it ended because we became more intellectually ept...compassionate and generous...imo

[gtapp]

It took too long for these folks to get the help they needed. There is no questioning that. No one from the top down is questioning that point. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they said when they were rescued if they said something negative. I have to believe that after you've been through what they've been through, you have to be deshevelved to a point that you don't always mean what you say. I've seen similar responses right here in Montana from people who were less put out. Let's not be too critical of these people, because it is very difficult to contemplate what they've been through. They are haggard out. I wish people would just say, "Let's help 'em" and put the other BS to the side. There is too much negativity surrounding this thing. People need to just help and put there opinions about all this other stuff to the side, it isn't helping matters.

I would NEVER help people who can't at least try to help themselves.

1. They built a city on a flood plain that is 20 ft below sea level.
2. They build levies for a category 3 storm knowing that a category 4 or 5 was imminent.
3. They were given 5-6 days warning that it could be a category 5 storm that would hit NO directly.
4. It missed NO and was a category 4.
5. The City did little to prepare.
6. The city had no plans in the wake of a strorm of this magnatude.
7. It is the CITY's job to rescue, provide shelter, provide food and water. Not the US Gov. Again NO PLANNING.
8. Instead of doing something about it, they chose to loot and complain and blame.
9. Bottom line: They made all three crucial errors. 1. No preparation, 2. No contingency planning and 3. Blame someone else for your mistakes.

Try helping yourself first and then maybe we can see if we have the time to pitch in.

[couloir41]

interesting post...gt

1) montanans planted crops in a desert...received subsidies to do so and complain like hell when they don't get full funding for their endeavors. subsidies.
2) montanans mined irresponsibily then wanted the govt reclaim hazardous and toxic sites.
3) montanans have harvested timber from public and some private lands only because fed subsidies made it possible.
4) montanans have forest fires that destroy private property and want fed aid to extinguish the flames and rebuild homes and businesses that are destroyed.
5) montanans built cities on geologic fault lines that will someday have a catastophic effect...and we will want the govt to bail us out and we will be real mad when we don't get the assistance immediately.
6) montanans let dams be built upstream from large concentrations of people...again a disaster waiting to happen...

no planning...and because i know how we whine when we don't get our subsidized emergency services we may well display the same human failures you condemn...

[iaafan]

gtapp: I'm so relieved you're not from St. Paul.

Actually you're doing well with your first statement and after reading it over a second time I feel certain that you've donated to this cause. You couldn't have missed seeing these folks trying to help themselves, so you could've just left your post at that.

N.O. had been asking for funds from anyone to improve the levees. In hindsight, it was an investment that would've paid for itself many times over.

You're saying that since they built there in the first place we're not supposed to help them? Is this the case for S.F./L.A. when a quake hits? The case for Montana when a quake/fire/blizzard hits? There are very few places on the planet that aren't prone to some sort of catastrophy. Don't tell me Californians don't know a big quake is coming. If so, are they all supposed to move?

An incredibly small percentage looted or committed crimes. Most of the people pointing these things out are copping out and trying to justify sitting on their butts. This type of thing has happened all over the U.S. (Rodney King, Detroit, Watts, and don't forget those Twins fans after the '87 Series. There was pointless vandalism for ya.) and the world, but never has it been so heavily reported on and never has it been such a moot point. The looting that has occured is about .00000000001% of the total cost of this thing.

Having lived in N.O. for a short time I can tell you it had done a great deal to prepare for this and was very wary of it. They were constantly seeking aid even before being warned by NOAA. Why didn't the gov't just tell the whole city to move, since it KNEW that this would happen? Certainly it would've been more practicle.

All-in-all, I'd say your comments are unfeeling and caustic and perhaps you should seek your own advice from Item #9 entitled, "Bottom Line."

[gtapp]

gtapp: I'm so relieved you're not from St. Paul.

Actually you're doing well with your first statement and after reading it over a second time I feel certain that you've donated to this cause. You couldn't have missed seeing these folks trying to help themselves, so you could've just left your post at that.

N.O. had been asking for funds from anyone to improve the levees. In hindsight, it was an investment that would've paid for itself many times over.

You're saying that since they built there in the first place we're not supposed to help them? Is this the case for S.F./L.A. when a quake hits? The case for Montana when a quake/fire/blizzard hits? There are very few places on the planet that aren't prone to some sort of catastrophy. Don't tell me Californians don't know a big quake is coming. If so, are they all supposed to move?

An incredibly small percentage looted or committed crimes. Most of the people pointing these things out are copping out and trying to justify sitting on their butts. This type of thing has happened all over the U.S. (Rodney King, Detroit, Watts, and don't forget those Twins fans after the '87 Series. There was pointless vandalism for ya.) and the world, but never has it been so heavily reported on and never has it been such a moot point. The looting that has occured is about .00000000001% of the total cost of this thing.

Having lived in N.O. for a short time I can tell you it had done a great deal to prepare for this and was very wary of it. They were constantly seeking aid even before being warned by NOAA. Why didn't the gov't just tell the whole city to move, since it KNEW that this would happen? Certainly it would've been more practicle.

All-in-all, I'd say your comments are unfeeling and caustic and perhaps you should seek your own advice from Item #9 entitled, "Bottom Line."

Good points! What has set me off the most about this is the Mayor of NO. When she used the media to bash the US Gov after the mistakes she made. I have a problem with that.

As far as me being "unfeeling and caustic". Your right again. I am not a compastionate person. I think everyone creates their own success and misery. If you have even a little responsibility for your situation then shut-up and do something about it!

[gtapp]

interesting post...gt

1) montanans planted crops in a desert...received subsidies to do so and complain like hell when they don't get full funding for their endeavors. subsidies.
2) montanans mined irresponsibily then wanted the govt reclaim hazardous and toxic sites.
3) montanans have harvested timber from public and some private lands only because fed subsidies made it possible.
4) montanans have forest fires that destroy private property and want fed aid to extinguish the flames and rebuild homes and businesses that are destroyed.
5) montanans built cities on geologic fault lines that will someday have a catastophic effect...and we will want the govt to bail us out and we will be real mad when we don't get the assistance immediately.
6) montanans let dams be built upstream from large concentrations of people...again a disaster waiting to happen...

no planning...and because i know how we whine when we don't get our subsidized emergency services we may well display the same human failures you condemn...

I love Montana, but I am not to fond of those whiners either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gtapp]

gtapp: You're saying that since they built there in the first place we're not supposed to help them? Is this the case for S.F./L.A. when a quake hits? The case for Montana when a quake/fire/blizzard hits? There are very few places on the planet that aren't prone to some sort of catastrophy. Don't tell me Californians don't know a big quake is coming. If so, are they all supposed to move?"

When (not if) the big quake comes I would expect the Bay area residents to get up the next day, start cleaning up, bury their dead and start to rebuild. No complaining, no blaming, no begging for help, and especially NO WHINNING!

[iaafan]

Isn't the mayor of N.O. a man? I believe the Gov. is female. I don't think at this time we need to be evaluating the leadership or what caused it, but rather just pitching in a helping hand.

You're description of the people in N.O. is one that I don't think is consistent with the majority down there. I don't see them as a bunch of whiners, but there will always be that certain percentage and maybe they are whining more than some. But maybe they should be.

[gtapp]

You're description of the people in N.O. is one that I don't think is consistent with the majority down there. I don't see them as a bunch of whiners, but there will always be that certain percentage and maybe they are whining more than some. But maybe they should be.

I will concede that! I only see what is on TV. I have never been to NO!

[Hell's Bells]

It took too long for these folks to get the help they needed. There is no questioning that. No one from the top down is questioning that point. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they said when they were rescued if they said something negative. I have to believe that after you've been through what they've been through, you have to be deshevelved to a point that you don't always mean what you say. I've seen similar responses right here in Montana from people who were less put out. Let's not be too critical of these people, because it is very difficult to contemplate what they've been through. They are haggard out. I wish people would just say, "Let's help 'em" and put the other BS to the side. There is too much negativity surrounding this thing. People need to just help and put there opinions about all this other stuff to the side, it isn't helping matters.

I would NEVER help people who can't at least try to help themselves.

1. They built a city on a flood plain that is 20 ft below sea level.
2. They build levies for a category 3 storm knowing that a category 4 or 5 was imminent.
3. They were given 5-6 days warning that it could be a category 5 storm that would hit NO directly.
4. It missed NO and was a category 4.
5. The City did little to prepare.
6. The city had no plans in the wake of a strorm of this magnatude.
7. It is the CITY's job to rescue, provide shelter, provide food and water. Not the US Gov. Again NO PLANNING.
8. Instead of doing something about it, they chose to loot and complain and blame.
9. Bottom line: They made all three crucial errors. 1. No preparation, 2. No contingency planning and 3. Blame someone else for your mistakes.

Try helping yourself first and then maybe we can see if we have the time to pitch in.

NO was built origionally by the french....what do you expect lol
ok that was a joke please dont flame me about it!

I think it is about time that sombody has shared my sentiments about what
is happening in NO. I was watching fox over the weekend listening to sombody whine and complain about how little the goverment did to prepair. I watched like a minute of it. He had the resources to evacuate people from NO - the police, school busses, a telephone to call other cities to find a place to put them. And then one of the senitors thretenes president bush with violence *landrew (sp??)* if he dares to critisize these Louisana public officials that, i guess, walk on water. the president did all that he could it was up to the state officials to help their city deal with this disaster.

[SonomaCat]

There is apparently a lot of misinformation floating around out there about NO:

http://www.reason.com/links/links090605.shtml

[Hell's Bells]

There is apparently a lot of misinformation floating around out there about NO:

http://www.reason.com/links/links090605.shtml

all i am saying is that we know who is responsible that is isnt president bush or anyone in the executive branch

fema is not a first responder
the gov was begged by pres the sunday before to evacuate everybody and she had to sit on it

[Grizlaw]

[And then one of the senitors thretenes president bush with violence *landrew (sp??)* if he dares to critisize these Louisana public officials that, i guess, walk on water.

Do you happen to have a link for this?

There are things I am willing to tentatively accept without a source, but allegations of U.S. Senators "threatening the President with violence" fall pretty far outside that realm.

[SonomaCat]

the gov was begged by pres the sunday before to evacuate everybody and she had to sit on it

Do you happen to know of a link for this as well? I thought I read that the Gov told the mayor to evacuate -- Bush was making a speech in San Diego at the time and wasn't really involved at that point ... and then he had AF1 do a flyover (bad PR move) to assess the damage.

[grizbeer]

[And then one of the senitors thretenes president bush with violence *landrew (sp??)* if he dares to critisize these Louisana public officials that, i guess, walk on water.

Do you happen to have a link for this?

There are things I am willing to tentatively accept without a source, but allegations of U.S. Senators "threatening the President with violence" fall pretty far outside that realm.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... rtstomount

Sen. Mary L. Landrieu (D-La.), the daughter of a former New Orleans mayor, has long urged the Bush administration to provide more money for levee construction, but said that the funds were instead reduced. She said Sunday that she was growing increasingly tired of having Bush visit the region, accompanied by television cameras, rather than sending real help.

"Would the president please stop taking photo-ops," she said on ABC's "This Week." "We are never going to get this fixed if he does not send us help now."

She also objected to criticism by federal officials about local responses.

"If one person criticizes them or says one more thing, including the president of the United States, he will hear from me," she said. "One more word about it after this show airs and I might likely have to punch him. Literally."

Maybe she didn't literally mean that she was threatening the President. I guess that means that it is o.k. for other people to say that if Landrieu says one more negative thing about the President it is o.k. to literally punch her.

[Grizlaw]

Maybe she didn't literally mean that she was threatening the President. I guess that means that it is o.k. for other people to say that if Landrieu says one more negative thing about the President it is o.k. to literally punch her.

Thank you; I had missed that quote, and I truly had no idea what HB was talking about.

Read in context, though, it would be equally fair to say that I have "threatened homicide" against quite a few people in my life, but if it were baldly stated in those terms (and without any context), I would probably feel that my words had been unfairly represented. How about you?