By George, ....

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:15 pm

....I think he's done it.

Yes, Bush is taking (some) responsibility for Katrina disaster.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9324891/

What are the all the people who were defending him going to say now?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:21 pm

If this isn't just some carefully scripted reaction to polling numbers (yes, that's what has driven this administration, just as ones in the past), I am going to take the positve view and say that we are finally seeing some real acts of leadership here. He's saying the right things, and I hope they have some substance to them. The most important things we can do now are to clean up things in the gulf, and immediately thereafter pull together details of all of the fu's that led to the disaster and document them. We must learn from our mistakes and use this experience to improve our government's ability to respond to threats at all levels.

Kudos to GWB! If his job approval ratings now go up, at least we can expect to see some future additional good leadership via the Pavlov response.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:39 pm

I just think it's great that all these spin doctors who were pointing fingers at the locals and state ONLY (and it was obvious they were only doing so to protect Bush) now have to eat crow. They are now going to have to figure out a way to spin their own spin. First they will say they never said the fed wasn't totally clean and then they will say they never said Bush was ultimately responsible. After that they will say that MOST of the responsibility lies with local bodies, hoping all the while that Bush doesn't say the fed is primarily responsible. I don't think they can go the looter route again, but I won't put it past them.

'93HonoluluCat · Post by **'93HonoluluCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:37 pm

The President is doing what every leader should--taking responsibility for his subordinates' actions. The old adage "you can delegate authority, but not responsibility" rings true, and the President is showing this.

The real issue is the incompetence at the local and state levels, where bad assumptions were made, and plans were developed but never put into effect. I sincerely believe if the city of New Orleans would have had a competent mayor, much of the assistance would have arrived much earlier than it has.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:07 pm

Well that took awhile, but eventually I knew somebody would come up with something. Congrats HC93. You must be pretty sure Bush is going to come out and say, "Well, uhh-heh-heh, umm. Like it sucked that this had to, like, happen and everthing. But, umm, uuhh-heh-heh, I, like, think it's the mayor's fault. That fart-knocker. Heh-heh, Karl told me to say that. Umm, but the mayor sucks."

"Uhh, you said competent." "I could've scored last, but I'm like, uhh, competent."

'93HonoluluCat · Post by **'93HonoluluCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:04 pm

iaafan wrote:Well that took awhile, but eventually I knew somebody would come up with something. Congrats HC93.

Well, I aim to please.

I don't claim that FEMA didn't have any fault in the aftermath of Katrina, but I think far too little culpability has been put on the state and local planning (or considerable lack thereof) and reaction (or, again, the considerable lack thereof).

Asking a person with no emergency response experience at all to step down from FEMA was a good move--but I do wonder why the President hired Mr. Brown in the first place.

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:36 am

I think it is great that the relief effort is picking up. I have seen comparisons from local and state officials and leaders (clerics and such) comparing this disaster response to the 9-11 response and blaming the difference on race and class. Maybe this came up before, but wasn't the initial response of going into the towers done by NY FD/PD? I don't recall the federal government getting involved right away. I think in the current case everyone is to blame and there has been too much grandstanding by politions on every level (both parties). Get on with the cleanup and then evaluate the response to come up with a better plan for the future. Even after all the warnings there were people on the news drinking beer downtown and telling anyone who would listen that the media was blowing the size and magnitude of the storm out of proportion and they had taken every other one in stride, this would be no different. Attitudes like that I don't feel sorry for. Those that had no choice but to stay because of health and means are the ones that didn't have a chance. These are the ones we should have planned better for. What about the homeless, I wonder how many of them didn't know what was coming until it was too late. Kudos to other countries for helping out also - I saw some pictures of Mexican Marines helping clean up.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:32 am

Got to agree with DC2MSU and add: Why in the hell are they going to rebuild that city in that location? Unless you've ever been to N.O. enjoying their festivities, that question makes little sense. It's going to get hit again and hopefully the dikes hold as they did so many other times. After the fact is a sorry attempt to fix blame because hindsight plays out much better than planning for contingencies.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:36 am

iaafan wrote:Well that took awhile, but eventually I knew somebody would come up with something. Congrats HC93. You must be pretty sure Bush is going to come out and say, "Well, uhh-heh-heh, umm. Like it sucked that this had to, like, happen and everthing. But, umm, uuhh-heh-heh, I, like, think it's the mayor's fault. That fart-knocker. Heh-heh, Karl told me to say that. Umm, but the mayor sucks."
"Uhh, you said competent." "I could've scored last, but I'm like, uhh, competent."

iaa, you are officially the Howard Dean of Bobcat Nation. YEEEEEEAAAHHH

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:43 am

Ponycat wrote:
iaafan wrote:Well that took awhile, but eventually I knew somebody would come up with something. Congrats HC93. You must be pretty sure Bush is going to come out and say, "Well, uhh-heh-heh, umm. Like it sucked that this had to, like, happen and everthing. But, umm, uuhh-heh-heh, I, like, think it's the mayor's fault. That fart-knocker. Heh-heh, Karl told me to say that. Umm, but the mayor sucks."
"Uhh, you said competent." "I could've scored last, but I'm like, uhh, competent."
iaa, you are officially the Howard Dean of Bobcat Nation. YEEEEEEAAAHHH

hehehe good memories from primary season

hey deaney...err diaa was that a directional mike you were using??

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:52 am

That was clearly a one post joke.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:17 pm

Gee, the President is saying what everyone wants to hear....surprise, surprise.

One question (

), was the President taking responsibility for the storm, or for the relief effort afterwards?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:26 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:Gee, the President is saying what everyone wants to hear....surprise, surprise.

One question ( ), was the President taking responsibility for the storm, or for the relief effort afterwards?

If he's taking credit for the storm itself, and he really, really means it, then I might have a whole new respect for his faith-based approach to government.

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:27 pm

Sometimes we need to consult the history books. We tend to believe things like this have never happened before....but they have...hundreds of times. Look back to the great Mississippi flood of 1927. It was huge! It was devastating! Ever heard of the subsequent TVA program? President Coolidge (not necessarily the worlds greatest mind) appointed his Sec. of Commerce to handle the disaster. Find out who that was. Learn about his background and training. Find out what he did {hint...he didn't call FEMA}. Find out how he went about it. Find out how his newly burnished reputation made him one of the most admired men in the world. Find out what job he assended to. Learn about his subsequent horror story. History can be useful as well as entertaining.

And "no" Mother....Columbus did not discover America!

'93HonoluluCat · Post by **'93HonoluluCat** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:07 pm

raincat wrote:Sometimes we need to consult the history books. We tend to believe things like this have never happened before....but they have...hundreds of times. Look back to the great Mississippi flood of 1927. It was huge! It was devastating! Ever heard of the subsequent TVA program? President Coolidge (not necessarily the worlds greatest mind) appointed his Sec. of Commerce to handle the disaster. Find out who that was. Learn about his background and training. Find out what he did {hint...he didn't call FEMA}. Find out how he went about it. Find out how his newly burnished reputation made him one of the most admired men in the world. Find out what job he assended to. Learn about his subsequent horror story. History can be useful as well as entertaining.

And "no" Mother....Columbus did not discover America!

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
- George Santayana, philosopher

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:48 am

raincat wrote:Sometimes we need to consult the history books. We tend to believe things like this have never happened before....but they have...hundreds of times. Look back to the great Mississippi flood of 1927. It was huge! It was devastating! Ever heard of the subsequent TVA program? President Coolidge (not necessarily the worlds greatest mind) appointed his Sec. of Commerce to handle the disaster. Find out who that was. Learn about his background and training. Find out what he did {hint...he didn't call FEMA}. Find out how he went about it. Find out how his newly burnished reputation made him one of the most admired men in the world. Find out what job he assended to. Learn about his subsequent horror story. History can be useful as well as entertaining.

And "no" Mother....Columbus did not discover America!

Ya, just goes to show you, that it's who you know, not what you know.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:21 am

OK Raincat: That was Herbert Hoover. I'm intrigued, it sounds like you know the story well, so do tell all about him and how that relates to today's crisis. Coolidge was a Republican and as you said, not necessarily the world's greatest mind, so there's two things that he and W. have in common and one thing he and I have in common.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:25 am

I thought Coolidge was a Demo? Raincat can we get a 15,000 word essay on the history of all this?

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:59 am

A lot of Republicans would like to think that Coolidge was a Democrat.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:12 am

Actually things were pretty darn good when Coolidge was Pres., although I would say he was far more responsible for the depression than Hoover. Funny thing about Coolidge was he demanded that he get at least 10 hours of sleep a day.