Bison tailgate party vandalized

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:46 am

Grizlaw wrote:
iaafan wrote: However, if you can, just go over and beat the living crap out of them! I believe you'd be within your rights (Grizlaw correct me if I'm wrong).

From a legal standpoint, you actually have to be very careful with situations like this, because although you do have *some* rights to defend your property, you can get yourself into trouble if you go overboard. A person is allowed to use a *reasonable* amount of force to protect his property from being damaged or stolen; however, the law does protect human life and safety above property rights, so if the level of force you use to protect your property is later judged to be excessive and you seriously injure the person, you will likely be prosecuted.

If a person does find themselves in such a situation and wants to be relatievly certain to avoid prosecution, my advice would be that any force you use should be geared toward driving the person away from your property and/or recovering anything they may have stolen from you. If you have witnessed the person damaging property of yours, then you are probably within your rights to use sufficient force to detain the person until you can contact police. Of course, in any of the above situations, if the person attacks you physically, you are within your rights to defend yourself; at that point you're defending your own safety as opposed to mere property, which gives you more leeway from a legal standpoint.

I guess the major point I'm trying to convey is that if you simply chase the person down and give them a gratuitous beating, you can be prosecuted even though the other person instigated it by damaging your property, so be careful.

--GL

i am hoping 1aafan was being sarcistic

spider · Post by **spider** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:52 am

Grizlaw wrote:
iaafan wrote: However, if you can, just go over and beat the living crap out of them! I believe you'd be within your rights (Grizlaw correct me if I'm wrong).

From a legal standpoint, you actually have to be very careful with situations like this, because although you do have *some* rights to defend your property, you can get yourself into trouble if you go overboard. A person is allowed to use a *reasonable* amount of force to protect his property from being damaged or stolen; however, the law does protect human life and safety above property rights, so if the level of force you use to protect your property is later judged to be excessive and you seriously injure the person, you will likely be prosecuted.

If a person does find themselves in such a situation and wants to be relatievly certain to avoid prosecution, my advice would be that any force you use should be geared toward driving the person away from your property and/or recovering anything they may have stolen from you. If you have witnessed the person damaging property of yours, then you are probably within your rights to use sufficient force to detain the person until you can contact police. Of course, in any of the above situations, if the person attacks you physically, you are within your rights to defend yourself; at that point you're defending your own safety as opposed to mere property, which gives you more leeway from a legal standpoint.

I guess the major point I'm trying to convey is that if you simply chase the person down and give them a gratuitous beating, you can be prosecuted even though the other person instigated it by damaging your property, so be careful.

--GL

Hey Grizlaw,

Being a law student I'm starting to find out that the courts always seem to use that "reasonable and prudent" person test, which makes every action open to interpretation. I suppose when giving advice you just tell people to act reasonably.

BobcatBulldog · Post by **BobcatBulldog** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:58 am

I hate people who decide to mess it up for everyone. This is not the way Bobcat fans act and I am embarrassed that it happened to us. I set up a user on the Bison Insider, If any one wants to leave them a note letting them know that this is not they way we do things here. Use my login so that you do not have to set one up. I would just put your user name in the subject line.

User Name

msubobcatter

password

ii8dwoytgg

Bison Website

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:07 pm

spider wrote: Hey Grizlaw,

Being a law student I'm starting to find out that the courts always seem to use that "reasonable and prudent" person test, which makes every action open to interpretation. I suppose when giving advice you just tell people to act reasonably.

Yeah, that is the standard for a lot of our tort law system, although as a practical matter, in real life you're not usually advising people to act reasonably, but rather arguing after-the-fact that whatever action they have taken was "reasonable and prudent."

Good luck with law school. Are you a 1L?

--GL

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:17 pm

A couple of thoughts and questions on this:

1) When I was enrolled at MSU in the early '90's we were always made to leave the tailgate section and go into the game once the game started. Is this not being done anymore? In my opinion, this should probably be enforced. This accomplishes two objectives. First it gets the students into the game and they cheer making the noise level more loud. Secondly, the students don't just sit there having a drunken time and opening the door to potential problems such as was incurred last weekend. To me, the same could be enforced for after halftime.

2) Sounds like to me the security is hanging out just letting people have a good time. Hopefully as a result of this, the university will tighten the reigns.

orsalak · Post by **orsalak** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:29 pm

I am going to go to the otherside of the argument on this just a little. I think the guy who did this should be punished. But if people are going to build this up as a rivalry game things like this will happen. We told them that the students will get drunk and not be friendly and to park on the other side of the lot (this doesn't make it ok). What would happen if someone was flying a Dallas Cowboys flag at a Giants game, or a Redwings flag at an Avs game. With that being said anyone who breaks others property should be jailed. But no one should be suprised that it happened. I am sorry though bisonfan1.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:56 pm

orsalak, I don't really know what to say to that. So your saying that when you roll into another teams stadium to watch a game with your MSU plates, stickers, whatever on your car and somebody smashes the windows or keys your car that you wouldn't be surprised and it is your fault because you showed up at a rival supporting the oppossing team????

And for the record he parked exactly where we told him to, in the RV row away from the inner crowd of students, and it was about the only place he could have gone.

spider · Post by **spider** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:00 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
Good luck with law school. Are you a 1L?

--GL

Yes, a lowly 1L. With the work load I am wondering if I made the right decision.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:46 pm

spider wrote:Yes, a lowly 1L. With the work load I am wondering if I made the right decision.

Everyone wonders that at some point (and I'm probably the millionth attorney/professor/upper classman who has told you that in the past month).

Hang in there. The workload is heavy and will get worse, but you will get more efficient as you learn the "language" and get used to reading judicial opinions, and the work will become easier (even though you will have more reading than you have now -- and I know that seems impossible right now). I know it's impossible to believe this right now, but by this time next year, law school won't seem all that scary anymore.

Feel free to PM me if there's anything I can help you with (old outlines, etc.) And my apologies to the rest of the board; I realize 99% of you couldn't care less about this stuff.

--GL

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:40 pm

Oh no, I'm ALWAYS glad to hear there's another future lawyer lurking about; the world could always use more lawyers...

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:43 pm

As far as the legal aspects, how about one of these signs?

That really sucks. I always have the utmost respect for anyone who comes to town, and fans of any school, especially at a football game.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:52 pm

El_Gato wrote:Oh no, I'm ALWAYS glad to hear there's another future lawyer lurking about; the world could always use more lawyers...

Watch it, Gato. Your sarcasm is causing me "extreme emotional distress," and I may sue you.

spider · Post by **spider** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:47 pm

El_Gato wrote:Oh no, I'm ALWAYS glad to hear there's another future lawyer lurking about; the world could always use more lawyers...

Gato,

Trust me, I am on your side. If the other guys have all the lawyers, where would we be? I'm no ambulance chaser.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:47 pm

If that's all it takes to sue someone, would you care to represent me? I've got a LONG list of folks who've caused me all sorts of EED.

RyeCat · Post by **RyeCat** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:01 pm

) When I was enrolled at MSU in the early '90's we were always made to leave the tailgate section and go into the game once the game started. Is this not being done anymore? In my opinion, this should probably be enforced. This accomplishes two objectives. First it gets the students into the game and they cheer making the noise level more loud. Secondly, the students don't just sit there having a drunken time and opening the door to potential problems such as was incurred last weekend. To me, the same could be enforced for after halftime.

2) Sounds like to me the security is hanging out just letting people have a good time. Hopefully as a result of this, the university will tighten the reigns.

As another former "90's student, I also remember that they made you go into the game or disperse once the clock started. However, a lot of the alumni who donated a good amount of money towards their reserved seats and premium parking passes got a little irritated when the rent-a-cops tried to enforce this rule on their side of the stadium. So, to be fair, nobody is told to leave or go into the game and a $10 fee is charged for each vehicle on the general admission parking side.

orsalak · Post by **orsalak** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:08 pm

kmax wrote:orsalak, I don't really know what to say to that. So your saying that when you roll into another teams stadium to watch a game with your MSU plates, stickers, whatever on your car and somebody smashes the windows or keys your car that you wouldn't be surprised and it is your fault because you showed up at a rival supporting the oppossing team????

And for the record he parked exactly where we told him to, in the RV row away from the inner crowd of students, and it was about the only place he could have gone.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Not saying I wouldn't be p!ssed off just saying I wouldn't be surprised. Also I am not saying that I am happy it is this way but no one should be surprised that something like this happened at a college football game. The first thing I thought when I saw the bus was now that guy knows how to tailgate but he is also a huge target. Let it be known that I in no way condone this action. I am just not surprised that it did happen.

orsalak · Post by **orsalak** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:13 pm

I just looked up where I told them to park and I said the NW side of the lot. That was a misprint on my part and it should have been NE. Bison guy I am sorry for giving you the wrong info if I can help in any way PM me.

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:17 pm

El_Gato wrote:If that's all it takes to sue someone, would you care to represent me? I've got a LONG list of folks who've caused me all sorts of EED.

They make Viagra for that.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:32 pm

orsalak wrote:What would happen if someone was flying a Dallas Cowboys flag at a Giants game, or a Redwings flag at an Avs game.

I've never been to an NFL game so I have no idea, but I would guess that you would indeed find a Cowboys flag flying at a Giants game and vise-versa. But in the pros you're probably paying $50 (more or less?) for the privilage of parking and tailgating and the security presence is much greater than what we are used to. We're probably comparing apples and oranges.

I attended a Florida vs Auburn game in Auburn, Alabama. There were probably 10,000 Florida fans there and lots Florida flags and whatnot at tailgate parties all over the place. It all seemed perfectly normal to those people.

Would the folks at McNeese State have done something like that? Or how about Oklahoma State? I seriously doubt it. That fact is, the action of a few punks has tarnished the entire reputation of MSU's game day experience

and it will take an immense amount of work by everybody to restore it.

Be extra nice to the ISU fans this weekend. There's going to be a bunch of them.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:41 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
orsalak wrote:What would happen if someone was flying a Dallas Cowboys flag at a Giants game, or a Redwings flag at an Avs game.
I've never been to an NFL game so I have no idea, but I would guess that you would indeed find a Cowboys flag flying at a Giants game and vise-versa. But in the pros you're probably paying $50 (more or less?) for the privilage of parking and tailgating and the security presence is much greater than what we are used to. We're probably comparing apples and oranges.

I attended a Florida vs Auburn game in Auburn, Alabama. There were probably 10,000 Florida fans there and lots Florida flags and whatnot at tailgate parties all over the place. It all seemed perfectly normal to those people.

Would the folks at McNeese State have done something like that? Or how about Oklahoma State? I seriously doubt it. That fact is, the action of a few punks has tarnished the entire reputation of MSU's game day experience and it will take an immense amount of work by everybody to restore it.

Be extra nice to the ISU fans this weekend. There's going to be a bunch of them.

Exactly, we are on the same page on this one BB. In my opinion this is NOT something I can write off as unsurprising. I saw his rig when it pulled in and also thought that "they knew how to tailgate." But the they are a target thing never even entered my mind.

Bison tailgate party vandalized

Bad Apples