MSU (MBB) vs. EWU thread

[MSUcantouchus]

I muster up all my courage to post and you call me out. Thanks a bunch! I should have used the Little Orphan Annie decoder ring, or the Chronicle, I guess. Still, Roderick (see) could really help with renewed fan support.

It sure takes courage to post anonymously on a message board.

[LongTimeCatFan]

You guys have been ranting and raving and railing this team pretty hard, but all I will say this: If the Bobcats play defense like they did tonight, Montana State will win 10 league games AT LEAST and be right in the middle of the Big Sky pack. They continue to get better. Tonight, just six players played significant minutes and the result was a true team victory.

One of my winter projects is an in-depth story on the challenges of winning at MSU. Stay tuned for that. In the mean time, here's my gamer from tonight.

RAUCOUS ROAR: MSU men overcome 15-point second half deficit, post gritty 70-68 overtime win over EWU
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29730" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So...not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but what if this team does pull off 10 conference wins (a long shot IMHO) but still loses twice to the griz and loses their Big Sky tourney game: Is that enough for Huse to keep his job?As far as the story about the challenges of winning basketball games at MSU-I would be very interested in that. I hope you can really in depth-talk to former head and assistant coaches and maybe other league coaches too? But I know there used to be a lot of excuses about why our football team couldn't win until Kramer came along and emphasized our advantages and got the fan base energized. It'll be really interesting to see what comes out of that. Good luck.

That's my worst fear...that this team could win just barely enough to buy Huse another year or two. Although, thinking that way is probably getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Let's not forget that Huse's teams traditionally fair pretty well in the first half of BSC play...before completely falling apart the 2nd time through the conference. So while I'm pleased that we won a couple of games last weekend, my enthusiam is going to be tempered until I see how we fare during the 2nd half of the BSC season.

Make no mistake John, the MSU basketball team is a hot mess.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[Colter_Nuanez]

You guys have been ranting and raving and railing this team pretty hard, but all I will say this: If the Bobcats play defense like they did tonight, Montana State will win 10 league games AT LEAST and be right in the middle of the Big Sky pack. They continue to get better. Tonight, just six players played significant minutes and the result was a true team victory.

One of my winter projects is an in-depth story on the challenges of winning at MSU. Stay tuned for that. In the mean time, here's my gamer from tonight.

RAUCOUS ROAR: MSU men overcome 15-point second half deficit, post gritty 70-68 overtime win over EWU
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29730" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So...not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but what if this team does pull off 10 conference wins (a long shot IMHO) but still loses twice to the griz and loses their Big Sky tourney game: Is that enough for Huse to keep his job?As far as the story about the challenges of winning basketball games at MSU-I would be very interested in that. I hope you can really in depth-talk to former head and assistant coaches and maybe other league coaches too? But I know there used to be a lot of excuses about why our football team couldn't win until Kramer came along and emphasized our advantages and got the fan base energized. It'll be really interesting to see what comes out of that. Good luck.

That's my worst fear...that this team could win just barely enough to buy Huse another year or two. Although, thinking that way is probably getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Let's not forget that Huse's teams traditionally fair pretty well in the first half of BSC play...before completely falling apart the 2nd time through the conference. So while I'm pleased that we won a couple of games last weekend, my enthusiam is going to be tempered until I see how we fare during the 2nd half of the BSC season.

Make no mistake John, the MSU basketball team is a hot mess.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

The thing is, so is the rest of the Big Sky. Southern Utah, North Dakota and Idaho State are all behind the Bobcats in RPI and MSU was at 329 last time I checked. The Big Sky is 30th out of 32 conferences in RPI. The Cats just beat two teams picked to finish ahead of them in the polls — granted, it was at home — but I see a handful of wins out there even if they remain a "hot mess" and maybe two handfuls of wins out there if they continue to improve. The team I watched last weekend was drastically different than the one I saw against Pepperdine in the non-conference.

[LongTimeCatFan]

As hopeful and encouraging as that sounds, I'm still not optimistic.

[TrueCat]

[quote="LongTimeCatFan"]As hopeful and encouraging as that sounds, I'm still not optimistic.[/quote]

These kids are playing really hard and they deserve our support. As Colter wrote, the Bobcat team that was on the court Thursday and Saturday is NOT the same team that was playing earlier in the season.

[dwainegf]

I don't understand some of you guys. WE won the games this weekend and you post that you are afraid we may keep winning and the coach stays.
Are you serious? I understand the frustration over the basketball program. I understand the concern over the turnover of players. I do not understand why there is any concern about this team winning too many games.

[TrueCat]

+1

[John K]

I don't understand some of you guys. WE won the games this weekend and you post that you are afraid we may keep winning and the coach stays.
Are you serious? I understand the frustration over the basketball program. I understand the concern over the turnover of players. I do not understand why there is any concern about this team winning too many games.

I want us to win games, but I don't believe the program can excel long term under Huse. I'm not going to forget about his long history of late season collapses and personnel turnover, just because we won a couple of games last weekend. The sooner we make a change, the better off we'll be in the future, and I don't want Fields to have a reason to keep him around one more year. How many times have we seen this movie before, and the ending is always the same? I've gotten my hopes up too many times in the past, as the Cats played surprisingly well in the first half of BSC play, only to have those hopes dashed as the Cats then went "oh fer" February and March (or close to it). Maybe it will be different this season, but history suggests otherwise.

[Hawks86]

It's a weird situation. I fully support the players and want them to win and would never hope that they lose but I do not want Huse to return next year for the reasons others have stated.

[John K]

It's a weird situation. I fully support the players and want them to win and would never hope that they lose but I do not want Huse to return next year for the reasons others have stated.

Thank you...that sums up my feelings exactly.

[Colter_Nuanez]

Just to play devil's advocate....

If Huse isn't the long-term answer, who is? Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason Huse is in his 7th season is he is the best coach Montana State is going to get? I won't say what I think on the topic, but I think Brad is a whole lot better of a coach than most of you give him credit for and anyone in the Big Sky would tell you the same.

The Big Sky isn't even a mid-major conference. It's a low major. As frustrating as the Bobcats have been the last few years, they still aren't the worst in the league. Far from it. They have better attendance numbers, a higher APR and win more games than some teams in the league.

With a sub-par facility, an isolated setting (Bozeman), a disengaged community, no real local recruiting base and a low-major conference of competition, what makes you think the problem is Brad Huse?

I think all of you would agree that football is the most successful athletic program on a national scale when all factors are included. Let's look at the parallels. I know it's different sports and there's an FCS factor, but it's still the same school in the same town with the same general fan base.

- Both teams can offer potential student-athletes the chance to get a great education

- Both offer players a chance to live in a gorgeous town.

- The Football team offers an atmosphere elite amongst its peers. Until MSU does something about the out-dated Fieldhouse, that will always be a draw back.

- With what Ash has built, the football team can offer players a chance to compete on the national stage, in the playoffs and have a shot at a national title. No matter who the coach is, that will NEVER be the case at Montana State.

- The football team has tremendous financial support from the Quarterback Club and other boosters. The amount of recruiting money that's been poured into the program over the past 10 years cannot be understated. Basketball does not have this same support.

- By playing at the FCS level, MSU has a local and regional recruiting base of players who are elite among the competition. There's a bunch of kids who come out of Montana who, if they were in other states, could play mid-major FBS football. Local players then generate profound fan interest, true everywhere, but especially in Montana. Even if you got every single D-I hoops player from Montana, you couldn't fill a roster with them at either UM or MSU.

If the football program hadn't been on a meteoric rise the last few years, would the hubbub about basketball be so great? What if MSU was Sac State and just middle of the road in all revenue sports?

Just a few things to think about. I know the frustration surrounding the program is at an all-time high. Like I said earlier, I'm going to do a story on all of these and plenty more factors that goes into being a bonafide mid-major — ala Weber State — in a low-major conference. Stay tuned.

[wbtfg]

Just to play devil's advocate....

If Huse isn't the long-term answer, who is? Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason Huse is in his 7th season is he is the best coach Montana State is going to get?

The Big Sky isn't even a mid-major conference. It's a low major. As frustrating as the Bobcats have been the last few years, they still aren't the worst in the league. Far from it. They have better attendance numbers, a higher APR and win more games than some teams in the league.

With a sub-par facility, an isolated setting (Bozeman), a disengaged community, no real local recruiting base and a low-major conference of competition, what makes you think the problem is Brad Huse?

Those are great questions that I've been wrestling with over the past few years as well. In fact, I asked those exact same questions when Mick Durham on the hot seat. I thought Huse was a great hire at the time, however his record is pretty similar to what Mick's teams were doing during the last years of his tenure.

My opinion is that Montana has become a football crazy state with basketball being a distant second. Because of that, there are fewer basketball recruits than in the past, and also less support from fans/boosters.

That said, I don't think we can be content to wallow in mediocrity. Somehow, we need some new life in this program, and it seems the most obvious answer is a change in leadership.

It's a good discussion, though, I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts, Colter.

[Colter_Nuanez]

Just to play devil's advocate....

If Huse isn't the long-term answer, who is? Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason Huse is in his 7th season is he is the best coach Montana State is going to get?

The Big Sky isn't even a mid-major conference. It's a low major. As frustrating as the Bobcats have been the last few years, they still aren't the worst in the league. Far from it. They have better attendance numbers, a higher APR and win more games than some teams in the league.

With a sub-par facility, an isolated setting (Bozeman), a disengaged community, no real local recruiting base and a low-major conference of competition, what makes you think the problem is Brad Huse?

Those are great questions that I've been wrestling with over the past few years as well. In fact, I asked those exact same questions when Mick Durham on the hot seat. I thought Huse was a great hire at the time, however his record is pretty similar to what Mick's teams were doing during the last years of his tenure.

My opinion is that Montana has become a football crazy state with basketball being a distant second. Because of that, there are fewer basketball recruits than in the past, and also less support from fans/boosters.

That said, I don't think we can be content to wallow in mediocrity. Somehow, we need some new life in this program, and it seems the most obvious answer is a change in leadership.

It's a good discussion, though, I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts, Colter.

There's another good point. With the amount of football money available across the country, mid and low-major basketball teams and other male sports like track have really suffered. Look at Chris Wilson. Kid is an elite sprinter out of high school. He's offered some money to run in the Pac-10 and Dale Kennedy offers him what amounts to a quarter ride to run at MSU. But Rob Ash offers him what amounts to more than a half-ride scholarship to play football. It happens across the country. Why not take the better offer, more money, the chance for a free education? Wilson obviously gravitated back to his first love, but Dale and I have talked extensively about how many All-Big Sky caliber track guys he's lost over the years to football scholarships that exceeded what he could even dream of offering a kid.

[John K]

Just to play devil's advocate....

If Huse isn't the long-term answer, who is? Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason Huse is in his 7th season is he is the best coach Montana State is going to get?

The Big Sky isn't even a mid-major conference. It's a low major. As frustrating as the Bobcats have been the last few years, they still aren't the worst in the league. Far from it. They have better attendance numbers, a higher APR and win more games than some teams in the league.

With a sub-par facility, an isolated setting (Bozeman), a disengaged community, no real local recruiting base and a low-major conference of competition, what makes you think the problem is Brad Huse?

I believe we can do better, because we've done better in the past. I don't expect us to win the BSC every season, but I expect to win a BSC tourney game more than once every 13 years. And I expect us to win the BSC title more than once every 16 years. We had some very good teams in the 80's under Stu Starner, and again in the 90's under Durham. Why does UM excel in MBB while we struggle? Missoula isn't significantly more metropolitan or less isolated than Bozeman. And should we be happy simply with not being "the worst in the league"? And the "disengaged community" that you speak of, was not always that way. We had large and enthusiastic crowds for many years. Some years, we even outdrew UM. And what about the personnel turnover? Is that to be blamed on the facilities, or the community, or the conference that we play in, rather than on the head coach? And finally, there's our history of consistently playing reasonably well during the first round of BSC games, then completely imploding the 2nd time through the conference, followed by a first round loss in the BSC tourney. That has happened pretty much every season during Huse's tenure, and that to me is an indictment of the coaching staff.

[wbtfg]

Just to add to the conversation....

The other two finalists for the MSU position when Huse was hired were Bill Johnson, who hasn't coached basketball in over 5 years and Larry Gipson, who is Coaching at D-II Northeastern State (OK) Riverhawks who are 33-50 over the past three years (though this season they sitting at 10-2).

In my opinion I don't think any of those two would have been better hires than Brad (or any better than Mick, for that matter). This is why I kind of go back and forth about my thoughts on keeping Brad...I'm not sure there's many better options who want to come to Bozeman, MT.

BTW: I should note, I'm not disagreeing one iota with John K's points....I pretty much agree

[LongTimeCatFan]

Colter, I know you think the answer is facilities, but as we've discussed before, I don't think that will happen without some success. In other words, this fan base isn't going to fork over the dough without success. You can't have the egg without having the golden goose first. Look no further than the football stadium. We had the longest "quiet phase" in the history of man kind. Then all of a sudden, DMac shows up and we beat the Griz and win the conference and the money flows in because people are excited about the success. Regarding the field house, yes, everybody knows that it needs to be remodeled, but the donors aren't interested in funding something that doesn't appear to "need" their money. I guess what I'm saying is that people would absolutely support the basketball team, but they need to show that they can win the conference and get into the tournament. I'm sure that's why Weber and UM still have the fan support.

[allcat]

I realy doubt that the guys that leave the program are saying "I'm outta here these facilities suck". It would help to attract some kids, but succes on the court has to come first.

[John K]

Colter, I know you think the answer is facilities, but as we've discussed before, I don't think that will happen without some success. In other words, this fan base isn't going to fork over the dough without success. You can't have the egg without having the golden goose first. Look no further than the football stadium. We had the longest "quiet phase" in the history of man kind. Then all of a sudden, DMac shows up and we beat the Griz and win the conference and the money flows in because people are excited about the success. Regarding the field house, yes, everybody knows that it needs to be remodeled, but the donors aren't interested in funding something that doesn't appear to "need" their money. I guess what I'm saying is that people would absolutely support the basketball team, but they need to show that they can win the conference and get into the tournament. I'm sure that's why Weber and UM still have the fan support.

And don't forget about the significance of Cruzado's arrival at MSU, towards making the stadium expansion/improvements happen, which probably had an even greater impact. I'm not discounting the importance of our on-field success with regard to fund-raising, but by itself I doubt that would have been enough to get the new end zone built so quickly, without Cruzado lighting a fire under potential donors, both large and small.

[allcat]

Colter, I know you think the answer is facilities, but as we've discussed before, I don't think that will happen without some success. In other words, this fan base isn't going to fork over the dough without success. You can't have the egg without having the golden goose first. Look no further than the football stadium. We had the longest "quiet phase" in the history of man kind. Then all of a sudden, DMac shows up and we beat the Griz and win the conference and the money flows in because people are excited about the success. Regarding the field house, yes, everybody knows that it needs to be remodeled, but the donors aren't interested in funding something that doesn't appear to "need" their money. I guess what I'm saying is that people would absolutely support the basketball team, but they need to show that they can win the conference and get into the tournament. I'm sure that's why Weber and UM still have the fan support.

And don't forget about the significance of Cruzado's arrival at MSU, towards making the stadium expansion/improvements happen, which probably had an even greater impact. I'm not discounting the importance of our on-field success with regard to fund-raising, but by itself I doubt that would have been enough to get the new end zone built so quickly, without Cruzado lighting a fire under potential donors, both large and small.

She brought a new perspective, but the reason that it got built was that the stands were full already. If we would have had attendance of 6-7000 do you think it would have been built.

[John K]

I realy doubt that the guys that leave the program are saying "I'm outta here these facilities suck". It would help to attract some kids, but succes on the court has to come first.

In my view, the player turnover issue is the single biggest "red flag" when judging Huse's tenure. There is zero chance to build a long-term successful program, when you're having to almost completely rebuild your roster every year. When no players stay for their full 4-5 years, how can you possibly expect to have any strong leaders? Not only that, but I also believe that all the turnover impacts fans support. Fans like to see some familiar names from year to year, and I think it really turns them off when they look at the players on the floor and don't recognize hardly anyone from the previous season. Plus, I have to believe that word gets around about all the players who leave the program early, and that probably doesn't help any with recruiting.