Quality of our Recruiting Classes

[gtapp]

Are we getting enough from our recruiting classes, especially our freshmen recruits? I have listed the players (freshmen recuits only) who contribute significantly (regardless of performance) from each class. 2002 looks very good but the other years have yet to produce. I may have missed a couple if they transfered or signed in the summer.

2001:

Marudas (Only one left)

2002:

Birkeland
Bolton
Elliot (Special Teams)
Hirst
Lowe
Lulay
Mollahan

2003:

Jensen
Fuller
Austin
King

2004:

Barnhart
Bolton (PK)
Saucedo

[iaafan]

Are we getting enough from our recruiting classes, especially our freshmen recruits? I have listed the players (freshmen recuits only) who contribute significantly (regardless of performance) from each class. 2002 looks very good but the other years have yet to produce. I may have missed a couple if they transfered or signed in the summer.

2001:

Marudas (Only one left)

2002:

Birkeland
Bolton
Elliot (Special Teams)
Hirst
Lowe
Lulay
Mollahan

2003:

Jensen
Fuller
Austin
King

2004:

Barnhart
Bolton (PK)
Saucedo

You could add Daly to the 2004 batch.

[catsrback76]

Are we getting enough from our recruiting classes, especially our freshmen recruits? I have listed the players (freshmen recuits only) who contribute significantly (regardless of performance) from each class. 2002 looks very good but the other years have yet to produce. I may have missed a couple if they transfered or signed in the summer.

2001:

Marudas (Only one left)

2002:

Birkeland
Bolton
Elliot (Special Teams)
Hirst
Lowe
Lulay
Mollahan

2003:

Jensen
Fuller
Austin
King

2004:

Barnhart
Bolton (PK)
Saucedo

You could add Daly to the 2004 batch.

Daly was a walkon wasn't he?

[mquast53000]

Daly was a walk-on.

[tetoncat]

That does not mean he was not recruited. Aren't many of the athletes encouraged to walk on and then possibly earn scholorships later.

[BobcatLionFan]

Actually Daly is 2005

You can add Force to 2002. Would also had Zach Wolf to 2002. He's hurt/retired but he made a huge contribution. (makes it better)

I would add Carpenter and Coppack to 2003 (not for contribution but for allowing this last year to go out and get transfers without worrying about getting a QB).

Would also add Groves and Papich to 2004

2004 OL recruits are still to be seen (with Beneger, Smith, Verlanic). They well fill holes (with DeCock) next year and they look reasonable.

You have to think that Krammer does not like to play underclassmen, so Jensen starting as a Freshman was unique, and Fuller and Austin caused him some pain.

With his not liking to

[mquast53000]

That does not mean he was not recruited. Aren't many of the athletes encouraged to walk on and then possibly earn scholorships later.

They are. Not a lot will walk on and become starters. Seldom will a walk on start as a redshirt freshman. That is how college football goes, some guys that get full scholarships are a complete bust and some walk ons become great players. For that reason alone you have to recruit those that get scholarships and those that walk on. It really is a guessing game, and Kramer made a good guess with Daly.

[BobcatLionFan]

It really is a guessing game, and Kramer made a good guess with Daly.

Yes, Daly has stepped up.

Wasn't 2001 Hunter?

[gtapp]

What is surprising is that we offer about 17-22 scholarships each year (some transfers and JC's and some freshmen) and to see how many of those never stay with the team much less contribute while they are here is surprising. How do the griz compare? Any griz out there with this info?

[iaafan]

Actually Daly is 2005

Daly is 2004. He is a red-shirt freshman.

[BobcatLionFan]

What is interesting to me is of the starters on the team (from a rough count) I get

2001 - 1 starter
2002 - 9 starters (7 freshmen and 2 transfers)
2003 - 7 starters (3 freshmen and 4 transfers)
2004 - 3 starters (3 freshmen)
2005 - 6 starters (1 freshman and 5 transfers)

(I didn't count Daly, Mac is back to starting) and yes it adds up to more than 22 for kickers and a couple of RBs and 1 extra NT.

All starters were brought to MSU as scholarship kids (with Daly not being counted)

All LBs, TEs, QBs, and 4 (out of 5) OL were freshman recuits. This has continued to be the case (in that all backup OL, QBs, LBs, and TEs are freshmen recruits).

RBs, WR, and DBs tend to be transfers. Most of the DL are transfers

Most of the 2nd team guys are 2004 and 2005 guys (2004 freshmen and 2004 and 2005 transfers).

Would expect 2006 transfers to be WRs, DBs, DL, and possibly one QB (if there is a Div I dropdown that looks good). With 1 freshman QB coming in to Red-shirt

[JahGriz]

I'm sure I missed guys, including walkons. But this is most Hauck recruits playing now. Just listed as 2 deep.

2003
Transfers
Justin Green, RB, 6-0, 225, Jr - Grad
Craig Ochs, QB 6-2, 210, Jr - Grad

High School
Christopher Clark, CB, 5-11, 175 - 2 deep
Van Cooper, JR, LB, safety, 6-2, 190 - 2 deep
Muckie Foreman, QB/DB, 6-0, 180 - 2 deep
Ryan Gustafson, OL, 6-5, 250
Lex Hilliard, RB, 6-0, 198 - 2 deep
Johnson, DB, 6-2, 180 - 2 deep
Kelly Kain, 6-4, 260 - injured - was 2 deep
Matt Lebsock, QB/DB - 2 deep
Eric Michel, OL, 6-6, 230 - 2 deep
Kyle Ryan, 6-3, 210 - 2 deep
Kyle Samson, WR, 5-8, 165 - Gone
Loren Utterback, RB, 6-1, 195 - injured - was 2 deep
Alex Hawthorne, S, 6-1, 200 - injured possibly - was 2 deep

2004
Transfers
Ronnie Rodamer, 6-4, 210, WR, Notre Dame - Gone

High School
Ryan Bagley, 6-4, 197, WR - 2 deep
Cody Balogh, 6-7, 290, OL - 2 deep
Kevin Bell, 6-4, 265, OT -
Cole Bergquist, 6-2, 192, QB - 2 deep
Dan Carpenter, 6-2, 190, K - 2 deep
Dan Carter, 6-5, 315, OL - 2 deep
Colin Dow, 6-5, 275, OL - 2 deep
Trapper Hight, 6-4, 260, OL
Rob Schulte, 5-8, 185, RB - 2 deep
Matt Troxel, WR, 5-9, 175 - 2 deep
Kroy Biermann, 6-3, 215, LB - 2 deep
Jesse Carlson, 6-3, 255, DL - 2 deep
Mike Ferriter, DB/WR, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
David Haile, OLB, 6-4, 215
Tyler Joyce, 6-5, 210, LB - 2 deep
Aaron Mack, 6-5, 225 - Gone
Craig Mettler, 6-4, 240 - 2 deep
Tim Parks, 5-10, 180, CB
Karl Pitcher, 6-2, 210, LB
Carl Roeller, 6-5, 220, DE - Gone
Michael Stadnyk, DE, 6-4, 240
Torrey Thomas, 6-0, 175 - 2 deep
Jimmy Wilson, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
Quinton Jackson, 5-11, 180

2005
Transfers
Allen, Eric SO WR 6' 3" 205 lbs. Colorado Springs, CO - 2 deep
Russum, Brent FR OG 6' 3" 280 lbs. Lewiston, ID - 2 deep
Washington, Jason JR QB 6' 2" 195 lbs. Oakland, CA - injured (maybe )

High School
Beaudin, Daniel FR TE 6' 5" 215 lbs.
Brooks-Fletcher, Thomas FR RB 5' 10" 195 lbs.
Dyk, Chris FR OT 6' 8" 270 lbs.
Fisher, Brandon FR FS 5' 10" 200 lbs.
Girard, Dan FR OG 6' 4" 285 lbs.
Hillesland, Terran FR OT 6' 7" 310 lbs.
Klaboe, Kevin FR H-Back 6' 2" 220 lbs.
Lebsock, Shawn FR LB 6' 0" 220 lbs. - 2 Deep now
Mullins, Austin FR DT 6' 2" 225 lbs.
Palmer, Jace FR LB 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Palmer, Tyler FR WR 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Pelleur, Tyler FR LB 6' 2" 210 lbs.
Righetti, Jolly FR RB 5' 7" 185 lbs.
Schillinger, Shann FR SS 6' 1" 180 lbs.
Stapp, Clint FR QB 6' 3" 213 lbs.
Utterback, Brandon FR RB 5' 10" 200 lbs.

[gtapp]

I'm sure I missed guys, including walkons. But this is most Hauck recruits playing now. Just listed as 2 deep.

2003
Transfers
Justin Green, RB, 6-0, 225, Jr - Grad
Craig Ochs, QB 6-2, 210, Jr - Grad

High School
Christopher Clark, CB, 5-11, 175 - 2 deep
Van Cooper, JR, LB, safety, 6-2, 190 - 2 deep
Muckie Foreman, QB/DB, 6-0, 180 - 2 deep
Ryan Gustafson, OL, 6-5, 250
Lex Hilliard, RB, 6-0, 198 - 2 deep
Johnson, DB, 6-2, 180 - 2 deep
Kelly Kain, 6-4, 260 - injured - was 2 deep
Matt Lebsock, QB/DB - 2 deep
Eric Michel, OL, 6-6, 230 - 2 deep
Kyle Ryan, 6-3, 210 - 2 deep
Kyle Samson, WR, 5-8, 165 - Gone
Loren Utterback, RB, 6-1, 195 - injured - was 2 deep
Alex Hawthorne, S, 6-1, 200 - injured possibly - was 2 deep

2004
Transfers
Ronnie Rodamer, 6-4, 210, WR, Notre Dame - Gone

High School
Ryan Bagley, 6-4, 197, WR - 2 deep
Cody Balogh, 6-7, 290, OL - 2 deep
Kevin Bell, 6-4, 265, OT -
Cole Bergquist, 6-2, 192, QB - 2 deep
Dan Carpenter, 6-2, 190, K - 2 deep
Dan Carter, 6-5, 315, OL - 2 deep
Colin Dow, 6-5, 275, OL - 2 deep
Trapper Hight, 6-4, 260, OL
Rob Schulte, 5-8, 185, RB - 2 deep
Matt Troxel, WR, 5-9, 175 - 2 deep
Kroy Biermann, 6-3, 215, LB - 2 deep
Jesse Carlson, 6-3, 255, DL - 2 deep
Mike Ferriter, DB/WR, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
David Haile, OLB, 6-4, 215
Tyler Joyce, 6-5, 210, LB - 2 deep
Aaron Mack, 6-5, 225 - Gone
Craig Mettler, 6-4, 240 - 2 deep
Tim Parks, 5-10, 180, CB
Karl Pitcher, 6-2, 210, LB
Carl Roeller, 6-5, 220, DE - Gone
Michael Stadnyk, DE, 6-4, 240
Torrey Thomas, 6-0, 175 - 2 deep
Jimmy Wilson, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
Quinton Jackson, 5-11, 180

2005
Transfers
Allen, Eric SO WR 6' 3" 205 lbs. Colorado Springs, CO - 2 deep
Russum, Brent FR OG 6' 3" 280 lbs. Lewiston, ID - 2 deep
Washington, Jason JR QB 6' 2" 195 lbs. Oakland, CA - injured (maybe )

High School
Beaudin, Daniel FR TE 6' 5" 215 lbs.
Brooks-Fletcher, Thomas FR RB 5' 10" 195 lbs.
Dyk, Chris FR OT 6' 8" 270 lbs.
Fisher, Brandon FR FS 5' 10" 200 lbs.
Girard, Dan FR OG 6' 4" 285 lbs.
Hillesland, Terran FR OT 6' 7" 310 lbs.
Klaboe, Kevin FR H-Back 6' 2" 220 lbs.
Lebsock, Shawn FR LB 6' 0" 220 lbs. - 2 Deep now
Mullins, Austin FR DT 6' 2" 225 lbs.
Palmer, Jace FR LB 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Palmer, Tyler FR WR 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Pelleur, Tyler FR LB 6' 2" 210 lbs.
Righetti, Jolly FR RB 5' 7" 185 lbs.
Schillinger, Shann FR SS 6' 1" 180 lbs.
Stapp, Clint FR QB 6' 3" 213 lbs.
Utterback, Brandon FR RB 5' 10" 200 lbs.

Thats alot of players per year. Quite a few must be walk-on's.

[JahGriz]

I don't think any of them are walk ones. I believe all have at least some level, however small, of a partial up to full rides. Unless I left a walk-on in the 2005 list, which I don't believe I did.
If you consider nearly all of the 2001 class is gone, and consider the ones from those listed classes that are listed as gone, the numbers are about right.

[bozbobcat]

Coaching transitions can cause the problem. The Grizzlies just kept going, but the Bobcats had to tear down and rebuild completely. And it seems like many of our recruits are from out of state. We've made a lot of progress getting good Montana high school players to come here, but we still have a ways to go before we catch UM.

[Bleedinbluengold]

Jah listed the 2-deep, but gtapp listed a subjective list of those he considered significant contributors...just a quick thought anyway.

[BobcatLionFan]

Jah listed the 2-deep, but gtapp listed a subjective list of those he considered significant contributors...just a quick thought anyway.

I had noticed that also and looked at the 2 deep list of ours and there is a lot more on the list then. But I think gtapp did it the right way.

what is interesting is that the Griz give a lot of partial scholarships, thus they get a lot of in state kids to fill the ranks. Being in-state and partial scholarship kids (maybe a 1/4 scholarship), they keep them a long time because it does not cost them much. However they may not see the field, but they are around. Thus why gtapp's approach is better. Who actually contributes.

MSU gets a good number of transfers (more than UM), especially in the DB, WR, DL and RB areas. Thus, many of our 2002, 2003 scholarship kids are out of the system now. If you go back and list them, it's even better.

However, the Griz do get some transfers for the high skill positions of QB and RB. This might change with MSU starting to attract the better Montana kids. The Griz will have to go transfers more.

[JahGriz]

The Griz do try to get MT kid to accept partials in a lot of cases, and when they prove themselves they get more money. I like the approach in some ways, and in others I don't like it. But MT does give MT kids fulls in a lot of cases too. The Palmers, Beudein, and others. I'm sure Bender will start full.
Say you give two pretty good MT kid's each 1/2 a scholarship. In some cases it would be better to get a legit out of state kid and give them a full.
However, Loren Utterback was a partial, now I believe on full. That one worked out great.
I'm not sure either approach is right or wrong. But if you consider the injuries in college football, one might consider the partial approach to be pretty solid, in that you get more kids. It is luck of the draw a lot of times recruiting anyway. You may miss on a big time kid, but do have more kids with potential, any one of which could actually be big time. Plus, if a kid doen't pan out, you didn't waste an entire scholarship.
It is a tough call, recruiting is an art, and not an exact science, so if your approach works, that is all that counts.

[gtapp]

The Griz do try to get MT kid to accept partials in a lot of cases, and when they prove themselves they get more money. I like the approach in some ways, and in others I don't like it. But MT does give MT kids fulls in a lot of cases too. The Palmers, Beudein, and others. I'm sure Bender will start full.
Say you give two pretty good MT kid's each 1/2 a scholarship. In some cases it would be better to get a legit out of state kid and give them a full.
However, Loren Utterback was a partial, now I believe on full. That one worked out great.
I'm not sure either approach is right or wrong. But if you consider the injuries in college football, one might consider the partial approach to be pretty solid, in that you get more kids. It is luck of the draw a lot of times recruiting anyway. You may miss on a big time kid, but do have more kids with potential, any one of which could actually be big time. Plus, if a kid doen't pan out, you didn't waste an entire scholarship.
It is a tough call, recruiting is an art, and not an exact science, so if your approach works, that is all that counts.

JahGriz, How many of the kids on your list are MT kids?? I don't recognize all of the names.

[JahGriz]

I'm sure I missed guys, including walkons. But this is most Hauck recruits playing now. Just listed as 2 deep.

2003
Transfers
Justin Green, RB, 6-0, 225, Jr - Grad
Craig Ochs, QB 6-2, 210, Jr - Grad

High School
Christopher Clark, CB, 5-11, 175 - 2 deep
Van Cooper, JR, LB, safety, 6-2, 190 - 2 deep
Muckie Foreman, QB/DB, 6-0, 180 - 2 deep
Ryan Gustafson, OL, 6-5, 250
Lex Hilliard, RB, 6-0, 198 - 2 deep
Johnson, DB, 6-2, 180 - 2 deep
Kelly Kain, 6-4, 260 - injured - was 2 deep
Matt Lebsock, QB/DB - 2 deep
Eric Michel, OL, 6-6, 230 - 2 deep
Kyle Ryan, 6-3, 210 - 2 deep
Kyle Samson, WR, 5-8, 165 - Gone
Loren Utterback, RB, 6-1, 195 - injured - was 2 deep
Alex Hawthorne, S, 6-1, 200 - injured possibly - was 2 deep

2004
Transfers
Ronnie Rodamer, 6-4, 210, WR, Notre Dame - Gone

High School
Ryan Bagley, 6-4, 197, WR - 2 deep
Cody Balogh, 6-7, 290, OL - 2 deep
Kevin Bell, 6-4, 265, OT -
Cole Bergquist, 6-2, 192, QB - 2 deep
Dan Carpenter, 6-2, 190, K - 2 deep
Dan Carter, 6-5, 315, OL - 2 deep
Colin Dow, 6-5, 275, OL - 2 deep
Trapper Hight, 6-4, 260, OL
Rob Schulte, 5-8, 185, RB - 2 deep
Matt Troxel, WR, 5-9, 175 - 2 deep
Kroy Biermann, 6-3, 215, LB - 2 deep
Jesse Carlson, 6-3, 255, DL - 2 deep
Mike Ferriter, DB/WR, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
David Haile, OLB, 6-4, 215
Tyler Joyce, 6-5, 210, LB - 2 deep
Aaron Mack, 6-5, 225 - Gone
Craig Mettler, 6-4, 240 - 2 deep
Tim Parks, 5-10, 180, CB
Karl Pitcher, 6-2, 210, LB
Carl Roeller, 6-5, 220, DE - Gone
Michael Stadnyk, DE, 6-4, 240
Torrey Thomas, 6-0, 175 - 2 deep
Jimmy Wilson, 6-1, 180 - 2 deep
Quinton Jackson, 5-11, 180

2005
Transfers
Allen, Eric SO WR 6' 3" 205 lbs. Colorado Springs, CO - 2 deep
Russum, Brent FR OG 6' 3" 280 lbs. Lewiston, ID - 2 deep
Washington, Jason JR QB 6' 2" 195 lbs. Oakland, CA - injured (maybe )

High School
Beaudin, Daniel FR TE 6' 5" 215 lbs.
Brooks-Fletcher, Thomas FR RB 5' 10" 195 lbs.
Dyk, Chris FR OT 6' 8" 270 lbs.
Fisher, Brandon FR FS 5' 10" 200 lbs.
Girard, Dan FR OG 6' 4" 285 lbs.
Hillesland, Terran FR OT 6' 7" 310 lbs.
Klaboe, Kevin FR H-Back 6' 2" 220 lbs.
Lebsock, Shawn FR LB 6' 0" 220 lbs. - 2 Deep now
Mullins, Austin FR DT 6' 2" 225 lbs.
Palmer, Jace FR LB 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Palmer, Tyler FR WR 6' 3" 210 lbs.
Pelleur, Tyler FR LB 6' 2" 210 lbs.
Righetti, Jolly FR RB 5' 7" 185 lbs.
Schillinger, Shann FR SS 6' 1" 180 lbs.
Stapp, Clint FR QB 6' 3" 213 lbs.
Utterback, Brandon FR RB 5' 10" 200 lbs.

By my count 30. I bolded the MT kids.