Feel my pain

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:04 pm

Just to make you guys feel better about the price of homes in your areas, here is a listing of recent home sales in SF. This is why I see a long future of renting ahead of me.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ncisco.txt

Post by **kmax** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:10 am

Uh huh, care to compare average salaries also?

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:52 pm

BAC
I would take very high priced houses, with high salaries over High priced houses and low paying salaries, any day.
There is no doubt that the Bay area Is in a league all of its own when it comes to housing prices, but Bozeman and Missoula are not that that cheep. I read an artical yesterday that stated that housing prices in Bozeman are 60-70% greater than in Billings. In Missoula the average 3 bedroom home value is $195,000 while the average Missoula family can afford a Morgage value of only $75,000 (this info is a little dated but has to be close). Furthermore the average cost of a low cost a entry level "affordable housing project" is around $125,000, which is not affordable to the majority of Missoula residences.
I am very lucky, back in 1989 my wife and I bought our first home for $44,000 and five years later sold it for $90,000, and stepped on to the equity bandwagon. I know of so many dual income young profesionals in Missoula who can not afford to buy homes and yet despite earning well above the Missoula standard earnings.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:14 pm

But aren't a lot of the "average income" and other averages in Bozeman and Missoula skewed by the fact that many of the residents are students who aren't working full time (and therefore not really appropriate to include in the average)? Otherwise, the market simply wouldn't support the high home prices (and my understanding is that there aren't as many out of staters buying homes as some believe -- most of the demand in coming from within Montana).

The rule of thumb (I think) in terms of what a family can afford is annual income x 3. Does the average working family in Missoula really only make $25K per year?

On the flipside, almost everyone in this area is working full time, and most families have two wage earners (well, actually, there simply aren't all that many families per capita as compared to Montana -- people just don't get married as young down here).

The difference between our respective markets right now seems to be that it is way cheaper to rent here right now than it is to buy (even considering taxes, appreciation, etc.), whereas I have been told (sister who just bought in Bozeman) that it penciled out favorably to buy a condo there as opposed to paying rent. Our real estate market down here is totally out of whack right now.

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:55 pm

My wife lived 20 years in SF area. Grew up in SF and moved to Clayton. Carondelet grad '92. Can't live in same town as her parents because thier home has more than doubled in the last 15 years. Feel your pain, but don't worry if you invest early you can make a killing!!!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:15 pm

The only problem is, to "invest early," I would have had to done so several years ago. I have a feeling we are hitting a plateau now, so I'm holding out. As evil as it sounds, I'm pulling for a nice little real estate bubble bursting.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:29 pm

Wait 'til I sell my house, woudya BAC?

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:20 pm

Once nice thing about living in NoDak: I bought a 2500 ft2 house on a double corner lot and my mortgage is a little over half of what my rent on a 600 ft2 apartment was in Denver. Now I just need to buy some land in Montana before it gets too high priced - hopefully I'm not too late.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:38 pm

DCC2MSU wrote:Once nice thing about living in NoDak: I bought a 2500 ft2 house on a double corner lot and my mortgage is a little over half of what my rent on a 600 ft2 apartment was in Denver. Now I just need to buy some land in Montana before it gets too high priced - hopefully I'm not too late.

Oh shutup... you're depressing me. Of course, maybe I'll feel a little better when you let me know what the weather is like there in mid-January. And I do get to live a couple blocks from the stadium where one of the greatest players of all time calls home (I'm sure you agree, right?).

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:39 pm

I do have to agree that he is one of the best ever, though I really don't care to ever see him play. I don't think he plays the game the way he should (I've yet to see him run out a ground ball or be standing on second when he hits a fly ball to the outfield - things you do when all you care about is winning) and he is a liability in the outfield. But I do want to see the stadium. A friend of mine said it is by far the nicest one he has been to, of course nothing will ever compare to Yankee stadium and with George making his push for a new one I will have to put that on top of my list of things to do next year. Last I saw the Farmer's Almanac was predicting a mild winter - but mild might only mean positive temps. You've had to live out of state way too long if you aren't used to the cold anymore. I bet you could get used to the climate in Bozeman pretty quick!

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:17 pm

my wife says "yeah, yeah yeah!" when she grew up in SF Jolting Joe was still and still is the Greatest ball player the Bay Area has ever seen! Bonds still can't shine DiMaggio's shoes no matter how many homers he gets. She's met both and boarded horses next to Big Mac when he lived in Alamo and still played for the A's. little brat grew up with Brent and Drew Barry along with several NFL stars. What can i say, nice farm boy marries city girl.

Like the Bay Area, hope bubble doesn't burst. we want to move into her parents house someday and sell it for an ungodly amount of money, than move home to Montana.

soccertodd · Post by **soccertodd** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:07 pm

Oh yeah...I am going to be moving to Seattle. According to Forbes magazine, Seattle is the most overpriced city in the nation. San Francisco does make the list at number 7 but Seattle takes the cake.

Here's the link:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/inv ... p?GT1=4574

'93HonoluluCat · Post by **'93HonoluluCat** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:49 pm

Okay, you think the Bay area is bad, check house out here in Hawaii:

582 square feet
3 bedrooms
1 bathroom
Major Repairs needed

$487,000

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:54 pm

That's about comparable to my neighborhood. Anything I can find is less than 600 sf, no parking spot, and at least 500K. It's a little frustrating, isn't it?

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:56 pm

okay, so Oahu prices suck. But love Jameson's at Waimea for dinner. Wife loves ALL 3 Wyland galleries. I'm Army, Hale Koa for 85/night, great perks for being a walking bulls eye.

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:58 am

BAC -

if you really want to feel depressed about the area try looking at home prices west of you in Belevedere, east to Moraga, and my aunt lives south of you in Atherton, you'll start to love the immediate SF area home prices. By the way if BART is an option for you, Walnut Creek and Alamo are really nice towns to live in.

rebecca

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:08 pm

Hey Rebecca -- I haven't had a chance to reply to your email yet -- it was a crazy morning. I actually work in San Jose and take the train to work from SF. I really like living where I do (Beale and Bryant), so I guess I can't complain too much about the costs. If I really, really wanted to buy something, I could live down in the wastelands of South San Jose and find something kind of reasonable ($400K for a two bedroom condo).

The Atherton/Menlo Park/Los Altos/Palo Alto area is nice as well -- I was thinking about moving down there a while ago, but I decided that life in the city was worth the extra cost and commuting time.

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:29 pm

San Jose is a long commute from SF. The Sharks are fun to go see. Do you get to Marin often? Muir woods is fun to go blow off tension. May be see an Ewok or too. those Star Wars scenes were filmed there.Cliff House resturant at Ocean Beach is great ambiance, in case you find yourself with a hot date this weekend. In nice weather you can impress any woman with the beauty of the Japanese tea Garden in Golden Gate Park. If you miss Montana we do have a self contained Bison herd in the park too. Have to look, but there's alot more to SF than people think. Great to hike around Fort Point, and the Rock is worth going out to.

Personally, if I were to buy, I like Moraga, and they have great schools. Homes by Saint Mary's are in a good location. By the way SMC does play MSU, so look to see where the game is this year.

Don't know what you like to do for dinner but Taddishes (sp) is a place my dad always liked to take us to. Personally, I'm happy with a big pile of garlic fries from the 'Stick.

Have a good day.

Rebecca

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:55 pm

Okay, I found a place in the building across the street from mine that really sounds good... now I just need somebody to float me some cash. What? I'm good for it... sure.

650 Delancey St. #212
$919,000 Sunday
2 - 5 Adam Gavzer 415.901.2766 adam@loftsunlimited.com
Oriental Warehouse - Historic brick & timber loft in in premiere location. 2 bed, 2 bath, 2 parking with upgraded kitchen and new carpet on mezzanine. Plus steps from PacBell Park & Embarcadero!

Rebecca -- I haven't spent too much time up in Marin, but when I lived closer to San Jose (I was in the Sunnyvale/Mountain View area for about 5 years) I spent a lot of time around Castle Rock and Big Basin State Parks, as well as a lot of hiking/biking/running trails up and down the peninsula. I do need to spend some time up in Marin, though. It's beautiful up there.

I've been swamped at work lately, but that is mostly behind me for the time being, so I'll have some free weekends coming up. I try to spend a lot of time just wandering around the city, hitting bookstores and other interesting places, and taking it all in. When I have friends or family in town, we tend to do more of the Golden Gate Park/Presidio/Palace of Legion of Honour type of things, which are great.

I went to Moraga last year for the St. Mary's/MSU game, but we later learned that it was the last one we would ever see. St. Mary's dropped football prior to the start of this season.

I get my garlic fries fix at SBC (legacy Pac Bell) Park now, which is just a couple blocks from my apartment. It's soooooo much better than the 'Stick was for baseball. If you haven't been to a game there yet, you need to make a trip down to experience it.

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:11 pm

There is nary a way you can compare anything in the way of real estate in Bozeman, MT with San Francisco, CA! You can adjust salaries, life styles put your kids and grandma to work...any way you want to measure. If you want to visit a $210,000 home on Mission in SF, find a $25,000 house on Black in Bozeman. You can leave your $45,000 accounting job and $150,000 home in Bozeman and go to SF to take your new $100,000 accounting job, but be prepared to spend $750,000 for a comparable home, if you can find it. Likely you'll be moving somewhere east of Concord or south of San Jose and commuting something like an hour or more each way. Alternatively, you'll find something like an 850 sq ft condo near or around the city for about twice what you sold your home in Bozeman for and try out a whole new lifestyle. That's just how it is. Still SF is one of the most facinating, culturally interesting cities anywhere. Am I close, BAC?

Feel my pain

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