Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays

[SonomaCat]

GL: I was actually trying to execute a bit of satire with my post. In reality, I doubt any Jewish (or other American religious) group would be that arrogant ... which was the rather cryptic point I was trying to make.

Your second paragraph is perfect, IMO. If only some of the talking heads and "Christian" boycott advocates were capable of that level of common sense.

[Platinumcat]

I heard on my drive home that a Jewish-American group is planning to boycott every store that doesn't advertise using a "Happy Hanukkah" slogan. Their theory is that they, as "God's Chosen People" and the oldest major religion, deserve to have their religious holiday observed specifically as opposed to being lumped in with all of the other "minor" holidays that occur during the winter season by being pandered to with a "Happy Holidays" message.

I think the whole "Happy Holidays" debate has become ridiculous. Here's my .02 worth: when I give someone holiday wishes, I want to wish them something that is pertinent to them. Most of my family and friends in Montana are Catholic (as am I), and when I send out holiday cards (or when I see them on Christmas), I will wish them a "Merry Christmas." Most of my east coast friends are not Christian (most are either Jewish or agnostic, and a few are Muslim), and when I see them over the next couple weeks before I head out to MT for Christmas, I will wish them "Happy Holidays." Is it because I am afraid of offending them? No; my friends wouldn't really be "offended" if I said "Merry Christmas" to them, but it would be illogical. If one of my Jewish friends wished me a happy Yom Kippur, the statement would have no meaning for me; the same would be true if I wished them a Merry Christmas.

--GL

GL,
I was thinking about this very topic this morning. Now, I am nowhere as worldly as you in that I have never lived outside of Montana. So, perhaps I'm a bit naive about this. But, when I say Merry Christmas to someone, it is meant as a gesture of kindness and caring based upon my christianic beliefs and in the spirit of the season. If someone were to return a gesture to me in the spirit of their belief, I wouldn't be offended or think of it as any less important. The actual act of the gesture, to me, is what is most important. So, to all, I say Merry Christmas. If I receive a Merry Christmas, Yon Kippur, Happy Hannukah, (insert others) back at me, that's great.

[longhorn_22]

As the commercial goes, Happy Christmahanukwanzakah to you!

[SonomaCat]

I heard on my drive home that a Jewish-American group is planning to boycott every store that doesn't advertise using a "Happy Hanukkah" slogan. Their theory is that they, as "God's Chosen People" and the oldest major religion, deserve to have their religious holiday observed specifically as opposed to being lumped in with all of the other "minor" holidays that occur during the winter season by being pandered to with a "Happy Holidays" message.

I think the whole "Happy Holidays" debate has become ridiculous. Here's my .02 worth: when I give someone holiday wishes, I want to wish them something that is pertinent to them. Most of my family and friends in Montana are Catholic (as am I), and when I send out holiday cards (or when I see them on Christmas), I will wish them a "Merry Christmas." Most of my east coast friends are not Christian (most are either Jewish or agnostic, and a few are Muslim), and when I see them over the next couple weeks before I head out to MT for Christmas, I will wish them "Happy Holidays." Is it because I am afraid of offending them? No; my friends wouldn't really be "offended" if I said "Merry Christmas" to them, but it would be illogical. If one of my Jewish friends wished me a happy Yom Kippur, the statement would have no meaning for me; the same would be true if I wished them a Merry Christmas.

--GL

GL,
I was thinking about this very topic this morning. Now, I am nowhere as worldly as you in that I have never lived outside of Montana. So, perhaps I'm a bit naive about this. But, when I say Merry Christmas to someone, it is meant as a gesture of kindness and caring based upon my christianic beliefs and in the spirit of the season. If someone were to return a gesture to me in the spirit of their belief, I wouldn't be offended or think of it as any less important. The actual act of the gesture, to me, is what is most important. So, to all, I say Merry Christmas. If I receive a Merry Christmas, Yon Kippur, Happy Hannukah, (insert others) back at me, that's great.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable approach as well. Nobody should be offended in the slightest by a sincere good wish.

It's the people who take offense to anybody saying "Happy Holidays" that confuse me.

The whole thing is truly another silly "culture wars" battle that was created out of thin air by people with too much time on their hands and too few legitimate issues to worry about (media pundits who need something to talk about, mostly). We've all gotten along in this diverse country by wishing each other well in whatever sincere wording that works for a long time, and I think it has always worked nearly perfectly. If people want to say "Happy Holidays" to be inclusive or say "Happy [specific] Holiday" to tailor it to a particular person, or wants to say "Happy Holidays" to represent one relgious holiday and one New Year, more power to them. Woe be to those who would complain about people anyone who sincerely wishes someone else good wishes.

[Hell's Bells]

[SonomaCat]

Well said, Hell's. I agree. The boycotts of stores and criticism of the President because he/they used the phrase "Happy Holidays" does cause me to roll my eyes twice as well.

[Grizlaw]

I was thinking about this very topic this morning. Now, I am nowhere as worldly as you in that I have never lived outside of Montana. So, perhaps I'm a bit naive about this. But, when I say Merry Christmas to someone, it is meant as a gesture of kindness and caring based upon my christianic beliefs and in the spirit of the season. If someone were to return a gesture to me in the spirit of their belief, I wouldn't be offended or think of it as any less important. The actual act of the gesture, to me, is what is most important. So, to all, I say Merry Christmas. If I receive a Merry Christmas, Yon Kippur, Happy Hannukah, (insert others) back at me, that's great.

I don't think that's naive; I feel the same way (i.e., that nobody should be offended by a wish of good times, regardless of what "currency" it is given in).

Up to a certain point, I can see the point of Jews and other non-Christians not wanting "Merry Christmas" to be used as a term of general applicability. They live as minorities in a Christian-dominated country, and the fact that "Merry Christmas" is the "default" holiday greeting is somewhat symbolic of that fact. So in that sense, I can understand the desire for a shift in the lexicon, and I think "Happy Holidays" is a logical, all-encompassing term. At the other side of the spectrum, some Christians see the use of the phrase "Happy Holidays" as a sign that they are "losing" something somehow, as if the fact that some people wish each other "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" will somehow diminish the importance of "their" holiday.

From my own point of view, I think both sides are becoming offended far too easily over something that shouldn't be offensive. Christmas is what it is, and it doesn't have to mean the same thing to everybody. If some people are more comfortable sending out "holiday" greeting cards instead of "Christmas cards," why should that diminish the importance of the holiday to me? By the same token, if I accidentally send one of my Jewish friends a card from the "Christmas card" pile instead of the "Happy Holidays" card pile, I would hope that they will be sensible enough to take the message for what it is and not be offended.

--GL

P.S. Sorry I missed the satire in your earlier post, BAC. I guess I got a little tunnel vision for a second...

[Hell's Bells]

Well said, Hell's. I agree. The boycotts of stores and criticism of the President because he/they used the phrase "Happy Holidays" does cause me to roll my eyes twice as well.

my way of saying....who cares?

sorry couldnt ignore this thread longer...

[SonomaCat]

Well said, Hell's. I agree. The boycotts of stores and criticism of the President because he/they used the phrase "Happy Holidays" does cause me to roll my eyes twice as well.

my way of saying....who cares?

sorry couldnt ignore this thread longer...

Ahhh, I see. Often, when people have no opinion on a thread, they simply don't post to it.

[Grizlaw]

my way of saying....who cares?

sorry couldnt ignore this thread longer...

Well tell the guy who's sitting there with a gun to your head forcing you to read it that I want to have a little talk with him when I'm back in Butte in two weeks.

--GL (sorry if we're boring you, btw... )

[briannell]

this fit so well with the discussion, so I pasted it. (foxnews)

WWJD?

My head is spinning over this "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" controversy, so I've begun to ask myself, what would Jesus do?

And I've come to my own conclusion. I don't think Jesus Christ would be worried about whether or not Wal-Mart or Kohl's or Macy's is spelling the Dec. 25 holiday "Christmas" or "Xmas."

I mean, seriously, even His most faithful disciple denied Him three times after The Last Supper, so you'd think He'd be kind of immune to U.S. retail outlets denying His name as well.

More than likely — and this is my Grrr! — Jesus wouldn't care about Xmas.

I don't think He'd care about the whole "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" ridiculousness year in and year out, and He'd probably be aware that X is the first letter in the Greek word for "Christos." X has been used for thousands of years to abbreviate "Christ." Believe it or not, Wal-Mart didn't invent the term "Xmas."

But let's talk about "Happy Holidays" for one minute.

Sure, it's politically correct, but just because someone says "Happy Holidays" to you, they don't necessarily mean "Screw You" if you're a Christian. I think it's safe to say that the person saying "Happy Holidays" simply wants to include everybody in the sentiment. Not just Christians.

Or did we forget that this is America, where Jews, Muslims, Christians and atheists live in harmony?

But we're missing the point here. Isn't Christmas supposed to be about celebrating life and family and being together?

Then why do we always make it about who's right and who's wrong? We do it every year. Someone gets upset that "Christ" is not spelled out in Christmas. And then you've got people on television calling for boycotts of certain stores — where you are buying gifts, by the way — because they are saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."

And while we're at it, let's think about the whole gift-buying tradition. No matter how seriously you take Christmas, you're still buying gifts and wrapping paper and cards and fruitcake — so let's not take ourselves all that seriously now, OK?

I'm all for Christmas — believe me. I went to Catholic middle and high schools and know Jesus in my heart.

But I get just as happy and giddy around the "holidays" as I do around "Christmas." I can't wait to see the look on my daughter's face when she sees the Christmas tree or when we light up the house with Christmas lights or the Frosty the Snowman figure on the front lawn. None of which have anything, really, to do with Christmas, if you want to get technical about it.

Even so, I can't wait to get together with my family and the in-laws and the various extended family and friends we see only once a year, at Christmas. I can't wait for the Christmas parties that my bosses throw and the ones we get invited to by friends and business associates.

Holiday cheer is non-denominational (although if you believe the marketing, "holiday cheer" is synonymous with booze).

I have to tell you something, though. You won't see the guy fostering the Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays debate turning down free eggnog at the company holiday party. And indeed, he shouldn't. He needs to lighten up a bit. Have a little holiday cheer!

You want to show your support for Christmas? Try this. Rise above the petty arguments and celebrate Christmas like a true Christian.

Oh, and Merry Christmas. And Happy Holidays.

Click here for your Grrrs

[SonomaCat]

Cool. At least one commentator on Fox gets is (Mike Straka). Now if he can bend the ear of O'Reilly and the really dense (seriously, the guy just doesn't have a clue most times) guy that's always in the lower left-hand box on that screen.

Thanks for posting that, Rebecca!

[Hell's Bells]

my way of saying....who cares?

sorry couldnt ignore this thread longer...

Well tell the guy who's sitting there with a gun to your head forcing you to read it that I want to have a little talk with him when I'm back in Butte in two weeks.

--GL (sorry if we're boring you, btw... )

stress of finals getting to me....
i guess that is my way of saying...who cares if its merry xmas or happy holdiays...to each his own

[bozbobcat]

stress of finals getting to me....
i guess that is my way of saying...who cares if its merry xmas or happy holdiays...to each his own

I feel your pain. Finals are just a lot of work. And you're right, to each his own.

['93HonoluluCat]

Of course, it seems pretty unoffensive to me.

Because you've never taken--by your own admission--the Christian base of the holiday seriously. Those of us that do take it seriously are offended.

They're advertising to all of their customers as opposed to just the ones who are practicing Christians. But to some, being inclusive is offensive for some reason.

They are not "advertising to all their customers" by excluding "Merry Christmas." They are simply removing the "offensive elements." "Advertising to all their customers" would mean offering items that not only bear the "Merry Christmas" wording, but also "Happy Hanukkah" or "Happy Festivus."

You can't only have the highest profile holiday, you have to have the ONLY holiday in December (ignoring, of course, New Years, which is also a Holiday and, coupled with Christmas, would justify a "Happy Holidays" comment as well).

So, BAC, this is just about a theology with a big ego?

BTW, I don't have a problem with "Happy Holidays" when using it to reference Christmas and New Years'.

[ChiOCat]

And it continues ...

I heard on my drive home that a Jewish-American group is planning to boycott every store that doesn't advertise using a "Happy Hanukkah" slogan. Their theory is that they, as "God's Chosen People" and the oldest major religion, deserve to have their religious holiday observed specifically as opposed to being lumped in with all of the other "minor" holidays that occur during the winter season by being pandered to with a "Happy Holidays" message.

It sounds like it is coming from all sides now.

My Jewish friends tell me that Hanukkah is only a minor religion, and gets so much press because it's at the same time as Christmas.

I don't mind Happy Holidays, but they are not Holiday Trees. Those are Christmas Trees!

[briannell]

My Jewish friends tell me that Hanukkah is only a minor rel

igion

actually, it is very important. it is about a true miracle, the way Christmas is a miracle. It is about how God provided for his people 8 days of oil when there was only a days worth. hence the eight days of giving and celebrating. It was God revealing himself to the people of Isreal that makes it important. same as God becoming flesh and revealing himself to Christians in the form of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So, from a half Jewish family/half Christian family, both are given respect and seen as equal in importance. can you tell i SCORED during December growing up

[SonomaCat]

Of course, it seems pretty unoffensive to me.

Because you've never taken--by your own admission--the Christian base of the holiday seriously. Those of us that do take it seriously are offended.

They're advertising to all of their customers as opposed to just the ones who are practicing Christians. But to some, being inclusive is offensive for some reason.

They are not "advertising to all their customers" by excluding "Merry Christmas." They are simply removing the "offensive elements." "Advertising to all their customers" would mean offering items that not only bear the "Merry Christmas" wording, but also "Happy Hanukkah" or "Happy Festivus."

You can't only have the highest profile holiday, you have to have the ONLY holiday in December (ignoring, of course, New Years, which is also a Holiday and, coupled with Christmas, would justify a "Happy Holidays" comment as well).

So, BAC, this is just about a theology with a big ego?

BTW, I don't have a problem with "Happy Holidays" when using it to reference Christmas and New Years'.

Ego ... yes, without a doubt.

I'm not following any other rationale for why a Christian would be offended by someone else saying/using the term "Happy Holidays" to include all religions in their greeting.

Does the fact that Jews and Muslims and Hindus and atheists exist in our society offend you? If not, why would acknowledging them in our holiday greetings (commercially, personally, or via the President) offend you?

As to the supposed "ban" on items bearing the words "Christmas" on it at Target -- it's not true. It's simply yet another straw man argument put forth by the usual "create a reason to be outraged" groups. In general, if Falwell is involved, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not quite right. He's one of those Mullah who has a hair-trigger on his Fatwa-decreeing hand. As a result, they don't generally make much sense (unless, as charged in the article, it's all about rallying his followers for fundraising purposes ).

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... FRH081.DTL

[SonomaCat]

To put it bluntly:

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articl ... istmas.txt

[SonomaCat]

Another seemingly reasonable perspective:

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2005/12 ... tml#011933