cat/griz/playoffs

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:08 am

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
whitetrashgriz wrote:
Swilly3224 wrote:
El_Gato wrote:Just a quick observation: "National Powerhouse" programs don't ever use the term rebuilding year...
I guess Notre Dame isnt a national powerhouse...

I guess Tennessee isnt a nation powerhouse...

I guess Florida/Florida State isnt a national powerhouse...

I guess Penn State isnt a national powerhouse...

All of those teams have a had a rebuilding year so obviously using kitty logic they arent a national powerhouse
"rebuilding" is just a nice way to say really bad season. apparently you guys had a"rebuilding" year. i know what they are like because the cats had a stretch of "rebuilding" years.
Let’s see, ended up in the top 10, BSC champion and a playoff game. You're right trash, that is a really bad season.

The cats would love to have our "really bad seasons", because our really bad seasons are better than your best seasons!
.

Lets see......the griz had one more win than the Cats this year. The Cats beat the griz. The Cats played all DI opponents. The griz did not. The griz got their a** kicked in the first round of the playoffs. Somehow all this translates to griz fans as your program is a powerhouse and we cant tie our own shoes? I expect it from BearBac but the rest of you cant possibly be that dUMb. Can you?

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:18 am

MSUCATS wrote:
The cats would love to have our "really bad seasons", because our really bad seasons are better than your best seasons!
I'm confused... wasn't whitetrashgriz pointing out that the Cats have actually had "a stretch of really bad seasons" before??

... And there goes a Griz fan... playing that "Playoff" card again.

yes, that is exactly what i was doing. weird that we'd get a griz joker running his mouth. my whole point was coaches love to use the term "rebuilding" when they have a bad season. I never said the griz had a bad season, most of their fans did. they were going crazy after that playoff loss and calling for the coaches head because they "dont settle for mediocrity!" kramer called his first three years here "rebuilding" all i'm saying is that NO college teams, NOT JUST THE GRIZ, have bad seasons anymore. now, if you have a bad season, you're just "rebuilding" for the next year.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:35 am

The point I was trying to make is the USE of the term rebuilding doesn't really happen at the PREMIER programs.

Do the Notre Dame's, Nebraska's, and Michigan's have "off" years? Yep. But you generally don't see them labelling those seasons anything other than disappointing.

The griz fans use of the term "rebuilding year" is simply their way of EXCUSING a season in which they had a horrible offense (which won't be much/any better next year, barring the arrival of a real QB), an ultimately mediocre defense, and embarrassing performances against the Bobcats and AT HOME in their only playoff game.

Question, griz fans: If the Griz don't win the auto-bid next year and either don't make the playoffs or lose again in the 1st round, will you AGAIN call it a rebuilding year?

Oh, and by the way, shouldn't you use the term "rebuilding" BEFORE a season starts? That would at least be a little more acceptable in that you are essentially saying "hey, we lost a lot of key people off a good team, so we don't expect to be as good this year". Seems to me most griz fans were predicting return trips to Chattanooga back in August/September...

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:15 pm

I remember the radio announcers talking about going to the NC game again this year during the Fort Lewis game... Woops...

MSUCATS · Post by **MSUCATS** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:14 pm

Oh, and by the way, shouldn't you use the term "rebuilding" BEFORE a season starts? That would at least be a little more acceptable in that you are essentially saying "hey, we lost a lot of key people off a good team, so we don't expect to be as good this year".

Some coaches might say it at the beginning of the season, some might say it at the end of the season. Heck, some of 'em might say it at the beginning, middle, and end in any given season! You could argue this til you were blue in the face, and it's still not going to change anything!

Don't you think that when the coaches say at the beginning of the season "Well, we lost a lot of great seniors last year... we're looking at this year's seniors to step it up a notch" OR how about "We're a young team this year with a lot of talent. These kids have the potential to do really well this season." Comments like these allow the loop hole... so if people want to complain, it's kind of like an I-told-you-so. Coaches are sneaky! But they can also use these same lines during the middle of the season and at the end of the season. Like I already said though, it really doesn't matter when they say it.

(Once again this is all just my opinion)

Another Arrogant Griz Fan · Post by **Another Arrogant Griz Fan** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:48 pm

Allow me to bring some clarity to the term "rebuilding year". This would be a year in which a significant number of your top players leave and are replaced by inexperienced players.

Such was the case with the Griz last year. We graduated 6 of our top 8 playmakers and half our o-line last year. 4 or 5 of those guys were good enough to either get on an NFL team or get looks. We replaced these players with young guys who have little or no experience at the college level. Thus, the term "rebuilding year" is appropriate. You will be in the same situation next season.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:08 pm

But this Bobcat fan won't use that term.

I expect our coaching staff to have us ready to perform at a high level EVERY year; not just load up for a season or 2 and then slip back to the pack.

I find your comments somewhat amusing, AAGF, because most griz fans on this board & egriz were stating that your replacements were as good or better than the guys you lost; how then is that a rebuilding year? Most every poster on egriz thought your receivers would be better and your running game would be better; the only real question mark was QB. With essentially ALL of your D back, that doesn't really qualify as rebuilding.

Besides, I thought the PREMIER program in I-AA (oh, sorry, that's Georgia Southern, not dUMb) only re-loaded, not re-built. Even though the Cats haven't had any post-season success yet, I still expect us to compete for the Big Sky title and playoff berths every year, regardless of how many kids we lose.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:06 pm

El_Gato wrote:But this Bobcat fan won't use that term.

I expect our coaching staff to have us ready to perform at a high level EVERY year; not just load up for a season or 2 and then slip back to the pack.

You must consider playing 500 ball a high level.

List all the teams over the past 15 years who have had more sucess then the GRIZ. Looks to me like a "premier program"

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:13 pm

Ugh, what a mess...

Here's a question for everybody involved in both sides of this little debate. Why does anybody care about the term "rebuilding year" one way or the other? Isn't it really just semantics?

If a bunch of awesome seniors graduate and their places on the team are taken by younger players the following year, the term "rebuilding year" could be appropriate, or it would also be appropriate to just say that the team just wasn't as good as it was the prior year. We all know what happened to the Griz this year; if Griz fans want to call it a "rebuilding year," I don't see why Cat fans should care...and conversely, I also don't see why calling it a "rebuilding year" should make Griz fans feel any better about it.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:19 pm

jersey,

Take all the shots you want, the Bobcats have shared just 1 fewer conference championship than the Griz have in the past 4 years. This season, the Cats and Griz each went 7-4 vs DI opponents and the Cats beat the Griz; if the Griz were Top 10 material at season's end given their record, then I believe the Cats would have to fit in that Top 10 somewhere as well, especially since they embarrassed the Griz head-to-head.

Can we achieve more? Of course and that is what we now aspire to, EVERY YEAR.

grizlaw,

You're right; it is semantics but my point is that to sum up 2005 or write it off as a "rebuilding year" is just another delusional griz fan lie they tell themselves to avoid having to admit the team was a disappointment. Many griz fans claimed a return to Chattanooga was likely this season; that expectation does not allow you to backtrack now and try to claim this team overachieved, which is what many of your comrades are now attempting to do. You can't claim superior expectations early in the year and then throw around the rebuilding claim late when it became obvious the Griz weren't very good at season's end.

All I'm pointing out is the typical hypocrisy we get from many griz fans; those lovely folks who give all the rest of you a bad rap...

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:52 pm

El_Gato wrote:jersey,

Take all the shots you want, the Bobcats have shared just 1 fewer conference championship than the Griz have in the past 4 years.

OK, how about the past 5 years or the past 10 year or the past 15 years? Why is 4 the magic number?

This season, the Cats and Griz each went 7-4 vs DI opponents and the Cats beat the Griz;[/

You're forgetting the GRIZ played one additional game. At the end of the regular season the GRIZ had a better record, we were 8-3 (7-3 against DI opponents)

Can we achieve more? Of course and that is what we now aspire to, EVERY YEAR.

The cats hit a plateau 4 years ago; I am not seeing any improvement. And if fact the cats took a step backwards this year.

Many griz fans claimed a return to Chattanooga was likely this season; that expectation does not allow you to backtrack now and try to claim this team overachieved, which is what many of your comrades are now attempting to do.

You’re kidding right. The vast majority of GRIZ fans didn’t think this was a year we would get back to Chattanooga. However, go back on this site preseason and many Cat fans thought this was the year that you would. Most GRIZ fans were wary of the cats.

You can't claim superior expectations early in the year and then throw around the rebuilding claim late when it became obvious the Griz weren't very good at season's end.

I think this fits the average cat fan this year more than an average GRIZ fan.

All I'm pointing out is the typical hypocrisy we get from many griz fans; those lovely folks who give all the rest of you a bad rap...

Those who live in glass houses....[/quote]

Another Arrogant Griz Fan · Post by **Another Arrogant Griz Fan** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:31 pm

El_Gato wrote:I find your comments somewhat amusing, AAGF, because most griz fans on this board & egriz were stating that your replacements were as good or better than the guys you lost;

You would have to show me some of these "posts" before I would believe this to be true. It seemed to me that the general concensus among Griz fans was that our passing game would struggle this year and our running game and D would have to get us by.

El_Gato wrote: I expect our coaching staff to have us ready to perform at a high level EVERY year; not just load up for a season or 2 and then slip back to the pack.

What, in your mind, is a "high level"? You do realize it's been 20 years since the Cats last one a playoff game, right?

El_Gato wrote:Besides, I thought the PREMIER program in I-AA (oh, sorry, that's Georgia Southern, not dUMb) only re-loaded, not re-built.

I wish we could play for the NC every year, but that is not a realistic expectation for any team. I do take solace in the fact we were able to accomplish so much this season with such a young team. Has any college team at any level played for the NC as many times as the Griz in the past decade? The Montana Grizzlies are the definition of a "premier" program. Even in our "bad" seasons we make the playoffs and win the conference.

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:38 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote:
El_Gato wrote:jersey,

Take all the shots you want, the Bobcats have shared just 1 fewer conference championship than the Griz have in the past 4 years.

OK, how about the past 5 years or the past 10 year or the past 15 years? Why is 4 the magic number?

This season, the Cats and Griz each went 7-4 vs DI opponents and the Cats beat the Griz;[/

You're forgetting the GRIZ played one additional game. At the end of the regular season the GRIZ had a better record, we were 8-3 (7-3 against DI opponents)

Can we achieve more? Of course and that is what we now aspire to, EVERY YEAR.
The cats hit a plateau 4 years ago; I am not seeing any improvement. And if fact the cats took a step backwards this year.

Many griz fans claimed a return to Chattanooga was likely this season; that expectation does not allow you to backtrack now and try to claim this team overachieved, which is what many of your comrades are now attempting to do.

You’re kidding right. The vast majority of GRIZ fans didn’t think this was a year we would get back to Chattanooga. However, go back on this site preseason and many Cat fans thought this was the year that you would. Most GRIZ fans were wary of the cats.

You can't claim superior expectations early in the year and then throw around the rebuilding claim late when it became obvious the Griz weren't very good at season's end.
I think this fits the average cat fan this year more than an average GRIZ fan.

All I'm pointing out is the typical hypocrisy we get from many griz fans; those lovely folks who give all the rest of you a bad rap...
Those who live in glass houses....

[/quote]

ya, like much of what goes on on these boards with cats and griz, this got a little out of hand. my whole point had nothing to do with the griz. i could care less what anyone, including the griz call their seasons. IN MY OPINION, in this day and age of sports, players, coaches, and fans don't like to say that they had a BAD, or OFF season. now, everything is a "rebuilding" year. when the griz program got involved in this topic, that's where things started to get messy. and while it may not be the opinion of all griz fans, but we have all heard that you guys expect to make a run in the playoffs every year and compete for the title. after your playoff loss this year there were many people unhappy, and said that anything less than a championship is unacceptable. therefor, the griz program should never have "rebuilding" years. and if my memory stands correct, it is the opinion of some griz fans that your program does not rebuild, but rather "reloads". so while i disagree with some of the viewpoints of these griz faithful, your program didn't even cross my mind when i gave my opinion on "rebuilding."

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:57 pm

whitetrashgriz wrote:
ya, like much of what goes on on these boards with cats and griz, this got a little out of hand. my whole point had nothing to do with the griz. i could care less what anyone, including the griz call their seasons. IN MY OPINION, in this day and age of sports, players, coaches, and fans don't like to say that they had a BAD, or OFF season. now, everything is a "rebuilding" year. when the griz program got involved in this topic, that's where things started to get messy. and while it may not be the opinion of all griz fans, but we have all heard that you guys expect to make a run in the playoffs every year and compete for the title. after your playoff loss this year there were many people unhappy, and said that anything less than a championship is unacceptable. therefor, the griz program should never have "rebuilding" years. and if my memory stands correct, it is the opinion of some griz fans that your program does not rebuild, but rather "reloads". so while i disagree with some of the viewpoints of these griz faithful, your program didn't even cross my mind when i gave my opinion on "rebuilding."

Some fans will say anything. Most GRIZ fans expected this be a down year. Most GRIZ fans didn't think we would make it to the playoffs. I personally feel we exceeded our expectations.

MSUCATS · Post by **MSUCATS** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:04 pm

I personally feel we exceeded our expectations.

From what I heard from A LOT of Griz fans, you (the general Griz population) expected to beat the Bobcats, and continue on to win it all this season.

AM I WRONG?!

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:51 pm

MSUCATS wrote:
I personally feel we exceeded our expectations.
From what I heard from A LOT of Griz fans, you (the general Griz population) expected to beat the Bobcats, and continue on to win it all this season.

AM I WRONG?!

Yes you are wrong. We always hope to beat the cats and most years we expect to beat the cats. Most did not expect to win it all this year.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:54 pm

Preseason poll August 2005

El Gato - If I had to "fudge" one direction or the other, I'd say 9-2 with a 3-1 OOC record. I really don't expect ANY team to run the table in the Big Sky this year.

GavinDonos - I picked 9-2 simply because I agree with Gato that it will be hard to run the Sky. But, if I had to fudge one way or another I would optimistically pick 10-1... Not saying we're gonna beat OK State, but I think we could put togeather a late season power suge and, infact, run the conference.

CelticCat - but I picked 8-3 because I think 3-1 going into conference is very possible. I see us losing 2 conference games, but there is a possibility we may only lose one. I just "hope" that we don't start slow like we do every season, and if we don't, I think 3-1 is very realistic.

FlatheadLakeCat - 10-1 with one close game in Cheney. We will roll. There is not a team in I-AA that can stop this offense.

Cat Pride - I voted 9-2 with my heart, 8-3 is more reality.

Canyoncat - Gotta go with 9-2. We'll go 3-1 to start. I am just not sure about EWU, because it is in their house I'll predict a tight loss and we go 9-2 and get a couple of home playoff games.

Orsalak - I have to say 9-2 with loses to OSU and PSU.

Cat Grad - Nobody touches us this year— Just two days away from the first game; must concur with Cat Pride. At least 9-2.

MM7CAT - The only two teams that scare me this year are OK State and EWU. I'm thinking 9-2. See ya in Chattanooga!

I pulled this off just one topic. MOST cat fans were expecting an 9-2 or better record.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:04 pm

Eastcoastgriz wrote:Preseason poll August 2005

El Gato - If I had to "fudge" one direction or the other, I'd say 9-2 with a 3-1 OOC record. I really don't expect ANY team to run the table in the Big Sky this year.

GavinDonos - I picked 9-2 simply because I agree with Gato that it will be hard to run the Sky. But, if I had to fudge one way or another I would optimistically pick 10-1... Not saying we're gonna beat OK State, but I think we could put togeather a late season power suge and, infact, run the conference.

CelticCat - but I picked 8-3 because I think 3-1 going into conference is very possible. I see us losing 2 conference games, but there is a possibility we may only lose one. I just "hope" that we don't start slow like we do every season, and if we don't, I think 3-1 is very realistic.

FlatheadLakeCat - 10-1 with one close game in Cheney. We will roll. There is not a team in I-AA that can stop this offense.

Cat Pride - I voted 9-2 with my heart, 8-3 is more reality.

Canyoncat - Gotta go with 9-2. We'll go 3-1 to start. I am just not sure about EWU, because it is in their house I'll predict a tight loss and we go 9-2 and get a couple of home playoff games.

Orsalak - I have to say 9-2 with loses to OSU and PSU.

Cat Grad - Nobody touches us this year— Just two days away from the first game; must concur with Cat Pride. At least 9-2.

MM7CAT - The only two teams that scare me this year are OK State and EWU. I'm thinking 9-2. See ya in Chattanooga!
I pulled this off just one topic. MOST cat fans were expecting an 9-2 or better record.

9 posters is "most"? Interesting observation.......

MSUCATS · Post by **MSUCATS** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:08 pm

I pulled this off just one topic. MOST cat fans were expecting an 9-2 or better record.

No no no... I wasn't in that group, neither was whitetrashgriz, mquast, bleedingblueandgold...

So you pulled a couple of peoples predictions that thought the Bobcats would be 9-2 or better. So what?

Someone is missing the point! There were a lot of Griz fans who expected the Grizzlies to beat the Bobcats this season. There were a lot of Grizzly fans who expected the Grizzlies to go to the playoffs. There were a lot of Grizzly fans who expected to win their first, second, third playoff games. AND there were a lot of Grizzly fans who expected to win it all. Out of all those things that the Griz expected this season... only one thing was accomplished. You made it to the playoffs.

Here is my point Grizzly fans: IF you would have accomplished all of these expectations this season, you would be saying that this type of performance was expected of the Grizzlies organization.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:01 am