Joey may see the field on Sunday!

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:13 am

Sounds like Joey may get some serious time tomorrow from the Packers website. Nothing like injuries to move a guy up the depth chart. I am not sure Peyton Manning and Colts are the best time for this to happen but I hope he does great.

http://packers.com/news/stories/2004/09/24/3/

Leading up to Sunday's game at Indianapolis, the injury bug paid a visit to Green Bay, landing four players on Friday's injury report, including all three players listed at left cornerback on the depth chart.

Ahmad Carroll, Michael Hawthorne and Mike McKenzie all were new additions to the list when it was filed Friday, with Hawthorne (ankle) and McKenzie (hamstring) given the designation of probable (75% chance of playing) and Carroll listed as questionable (50%) after suffering a pulled groin muscle.

Also added to the report was wide receiver Robert Ferguson, who was listed as probable with a hamstring ailment.

GM/Head Coach Mike Sherman addressed the injury issue in a press conference following Friday's mid-day practice. He said that the rash of injuries all occurred around the same time, toward the end of Thursday's afternoon session.

"Something happened in the air in the last quarter of practice when we were working on our 7-on-7s and our passing game," Sherman said. "(Hawthorne) turned his ankle and didn't finish practice yesterday. He didn't practice today but he should be OK by tomorrow."

Prior to his hamstring set-back, Sherman was pleased by McKenzie's performance on the practice field. However, he's not certain as to who will be opening the game as the opposite corner to Al Harris.

"Mike McKenzie practiced well on Wednesday - he looked pretty good. Then yesterday, he tweaked his hamstring and we held him out the second half of practice and again today. We'll further evaluate him and I'll make the decision whether he starts on Sunday."

Sherman said that Carroll's groin is the most serious of the injuries. He listed the rookie as questionable in hopes that he may improve and be able to help the team on special teams Sunday, but noted that he was the furthest away from returning to action.

The head coach said that the streak of injuries all popped up in a short span during the workout.

"It wasn't the same segment; it was the second half of practice," said Sherman. "Hawthorne, he kind of turned his ankle. Fergie was going for a deep ball in 7-on-7. It was a touchdown catch - he caught the ball and felt something in his butt area, so we held him back. He wanted to practice today, but we wouldn't let him. With Carroll, it was the same thing with his groin. It was all in the defensive drill, non-padded."

One player who will be looked to step up into an increased role after the events of the week is rookie cornerback Joey Thomas. Thomas, a third-round draft choice out of Montana State, filled in with the starting defense Friday, but doesn't expect do be in the starting line-up Sunday.

"I'll sure jump at (the chance), but we'll just wait and see," Thomas said. "You never know what might happen between now and then. A lot of the guys were feeling better and they were just taking precautions. Whatever my role is, I'll accept it and I'm going to run with it."

After being inactive last week and limited to special teams duty in the season opener, Thomas could see his first action against a live, regular season NFL offense against the Colts. The young defensive back wasn't feeling any jitters Friday, though, and welcomed the challenge of the game.

"We're too far away for jitters," said Thomas. "We don't even know what's going to happen between today and Sunday. There's two or three days left, so we'll just see. We'll just play it by ear and whatever my role is, I'm going to go with it. Any challenge is a challenge that you welcome. I'm just going to study my playbook and go forward."

Injuries or not, Hawthorne said that there will be no excuses for anything that might happen on the field. If he's not healthy enough to play, he won't hurt his team's chances by trying to be a hero.

"When you step on the field, you make no excuses," said Hawthorne. "If you can't perform, you can't play, there's no reason to be out there."

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:43 pm

Update from packers.com: Mike McKenzie and Ahmad Carroll are both out for tomorrow's game. Joey is still behind Hawthorne and Harris but should get some PT. Fortunately the local TV stations haven't botched the game selection for once (just my opinion!

) so it's on TV.

Edit: Link http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/09/25/1/

Post by **kmax** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:27 am

Alright, let's keep it on topic and above the third grade level. And for BearBAC's conspiracy case please note that I deleted your posts not, BAC.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:53 pm

What happened? did he play?

I heard Chris Collensworth back door him by saying the other backup was playing becouse he didn't freak out as much.

mjc · Post by **mjc** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:20 pm

I watched some of the game and thought they said that #24 was off-sides during a kick off and then Green Bay had to kick off again.

Does Joey play on that special team?

I haven't seen Joey since he left MSU but I imagine that he's still a little emotional and imature. Please notice that I didn't say graduate, but left MSU. I get really upset when reporters etc. say that we loose players to graduation when in fact they haven't graduated - just used up all their eligibility.......

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:59 pm

He only played on special teams...had his first NFL penalty going offsides on a kickoff but not much other than that. They were playing another rookie ahead of him as the nickel back.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:57 pm

This was forwarded to me via a Wisconsin native in my office -- Thomas not playing was quite the topic of conversation among many in, umm, Packer Nation.

Thomas unhappy about not playing against Colts
By TOM SILVERSTEIN

Green Bay - Third-round draft choice Joey Thomas had a hard time
accepting that he wasn't the one called upon to fill a void in the Green
Bay Packers' secondary Sunday in Indianapolis.

Thomas took it hard Saturday when he was told that fellow rookie Jason
Horton would be the one taking over Mike McKenzie's spot in the dime
package (six defensive backs) against the Colts. He admitted on Monday
that he was extremely frustrated over the decision and never saw it
coming.

"I was shocked," Thomas said. "I was shocked. Part of this is how you
respond to adversity. I just looked at it as an adverse situation and
try not to let it get me down and continue to grow. Did I understand it?
No. All I can do is play."

The second of the Packers' two cornerback selections in the 2004 draft,
Thomas has been behind first-round pick Ahmad Carroll almost since the
start of training camp. Thomas suffered a knee injury Aug. 4 that
sidelined him two weeks and left him behind Carroll in the competition
for a spot in the dime defense.

But Thomas assumed he was ahead of Horton, who beat the odds and made
the roster as a free agent from the Canadian Football League. However,
Horton has been outperforming Thomas on special teams and was going to
be active regardless this week.

When McKenzie suffered a hamstring pull and Carroll a groin pull in
practice this week, Horton was designated as the fill-in because he had
been getting snaps in preparation for the game. Thomas was active for
the game, but he did not see any time on defense.

"He's a very talented athlete and we are not disappointed in his
progress," defensive coordinator Bob Slowik said of Thomas. "He does
have to get a little bit better from the assignment and the mental part
of things. He's a perfectionist and sometimes a perfectionist to a fault
and it affects him before the next play. I know he's a heck of a player
and am counting on him still improving this year and even this week."

Thomas remains unhappy that he isn't getting a chance to help the team,
but he said he was accepting the decision the best he could. He said he
did not try to make a case for himself playing when he spoke to the
coaches and would continue to let his play do the talking.

"What can you say?" Thomas said. "What cause can you fight for that
reasonably makes sense to a coach. He's the coach. He's going to make
the decision. He knew that I was disappointed; he knew that I didn't
quite understand, but I respect the man's decision. I'm going to go out
and keep making plays and keep doing all the things I know I can do."

Horton wound up playing not only in the dime, but in the base defense
when starter Michael Hawthorne suffered a head injury. The two most
notable plays involving Horton were a Peyton Manning pass that went off
his hands and a pass interference call in the end zone that set up the
Colts' last touchdown.

"Watching it on film, I didn't even touch him," Horton said of the
penalty. "He grabbed me. The official who was right on top of it said it
was a legal play. But the other guy (in the back of the end zone)
over-ruled him."

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:52 am

This adds a little more information to the discussion. It seems that Joey and Carroll aren't the best of friends:

Rookie CBs clash off the field
By Rob Demovsky
PackersNews.com

Though it may or may not explain Joey Thomas' unexpected absence from the lineup in the Green Bay Packers' loss Sunday at Indianapolis, Thomas was involved in an altercation with teammate Ahmad Carroll at team headquarters last week, according to league sources.

The two rookie cornerbacks got into a scrap following a defensive backs meeting last Monday, the day after the Packers' Sept. 19 home loss to the Chicago Bears. When the verbal sparring continued outside the meeting room, Carroll jumped Thomas and the two had to be separated, the sources said.

Carroll, the Packers' first-round draft pick, did not play in Sunday's 45-31 loss to the Colts because the team said he injured his groin in practice Thursday. He was ruled out on Saturday morning and did not make the trip to Indianapolis.

Thomas, a third-round pick who was inactive against the Bears, played only on special teams against the Colts, which raised questions because he was benched on defense in favor of first-year pro Jason Horton, even after Thomas practiced with the No. 1 defense as late as Friday.

The Packers were forced into a bind at cornerback late last week when Mike McKenzie, Michael Hawthorne and Carroll all were injured in Thursday's practice. Like Carroll, McKenzie did not make the trip to Indianapolis.

During training camp, Carroll and Thomas were roommates in the dorms at St. Norbert College. It would be natural for a rivalry to exist between the two players because they were the first two players drafted by the Packers last spring and share the same position.

Coach Mike Sherman said during his regular news conference on Monday that Horton played in the dime defense and in place of Hawthorne in the base defense while Hawthorne briefly left the game due to a concussion because Horton had a bigger role in practice early in the week.

"It was predicated on the fact that Horton had shown us, to that point, a certain prowess on special teams that our special teams coach favored, and he was active the week before," Sherman said. "Knowing that he was going to play, he got more reps (in practice last week) than Joey. Since it happened later in the week, there was a certain comfort level that (Horton) had been in there and done that, so to speak, and Horton had a good week of practice. Joey had a good week of practice, too. The fact that Horton was (active) the week before and had been practicing because we knew he would be active probably precipitated the thought in regard to him being active in this game as well."

In training camp, Thomas performed well and at times appeared to be even with or slightly ahead of Carroll on the depth chart. Thomas certainly was ahead of Horton at cornerback but not on special teams.

"I think Joey Thomas is still what a lot of us had thought * he's a very talented athlete, and we're not disappointed in his progress," defensive coordinator Bob Slowik said on Monday during a conference call with reporters. "He does have to get a little bit better more from the assignment mental part of it and even as far as he's a perfectionist and sometimes he's a perfectionist to a fault in that if it's not done perfectly it will affect him for the next play. We know he's going to be a heck of a player, and we're counting on him improving this year and even this week so we can work him into the scheme of things if we have the opportunity. He's still a very gifted player that can grow and will be a real good player in the NFL."

During the team's open locker room session with reporters on Monday, which was before the Press-Gazette learned of the incident between Carroll and Thomas, Thomas was asked if he was in the coaches' doghouse.

"No one has told me I was in the doghouse," Thomas said.

When asked if he has gotten the feeling he was in their doghouse, he said: "If you were me, would you have that feeling? We'll leave it at that."

WYCAT · Post by **WYCAT** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:08 pm

That helps explain a lot. I was very surprised he didn't play last week. It doesn't sound like his NFL career is not off to a very good start yet. After being drafted from what I read he was doing well - outplayed Carroll in a couple of mini camps and was in training camp a few days before Carroll signed his contract after a short holdout. Since then things seem to have gone down hill. After McKenzie came back I knew his chances of playing didn't get better but it seems like they are doing anything they can not to put him on the field. I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded yet this year.

Amazing isn't it, the packers have almost too much talent and depth at the CB position just like the cats

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:20 pm

Trying to sort throught the articles, it seems like the main reason the team cites for not playing his was that the other guy had gotten more reps in practice (on special teams) as Joey was coming off an injury. It seems like a strange rationale, but maybe it was true. Nobody seems to suggest that the altercation cost him playing time. Who knows?

If he doesn't start getting some time after a couple weeks of being on the active roster for games, then I agree that I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:37 am

The Helena IR picked up an AP ariticle dealing with the Carroall-Thomas thing a bit. Has some good comments from both players and the coach in it.

Packers fall on hard times