Irish

IrishBobcat · Post by **IrishBobcat** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:43 pm

nogriz,

I too do not buy the 'nice guy' argument. As a Notre Dame fan, we had to put up with this argument last year. Tyrone Willingham was an undisputed man of character and a great leader fro young men. However, he wasn't getting the job done. End of story.

While I can see your argument, I don't think we are anywhere near the end of this story. (But your post has me thinking) I just do not think administration is seeing those numbers the same way you are.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:31 pm

IrishBobcat wrote:nogriz,

I too do not buy the 'nice guy' argument. As a Notre Dame fan, we had to put up with this argument last year. Tyrone Willingham was an undisputed man of character and a great leader fro young men. However, he wasn't getting the job done. End of story.

While I can see your argument, I don't think we are anywhere near the end of this story. (But your post has me thinking) I just do not think administration is seeing those numbers the same way you are.

He wasn't getting the job done? How did ND do this year with his recruits?

IrishBobcat · Post by **IrishBobcat** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:10 am

loyal sigsu,

If you would like to debate the Merits of Ty Willingham's coaching skill, think about this.

MSU arguably had the best returning talent of any big sky squad. ND had dropped off the radar in terms of talent (his last recruiting class was not even in the top 25). Weis has motivated and schemed his way to big victories. What would MSU be able to do with a different motivational style? Tyrone left the cupboard bare. MSU's cupboard is anything but bare.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:39 am

IrishBobcat wrote:loyal sigsu,

If you would like to debate the Merits of Ty Willingham's coaching skill, think about this.

MSU arguably had the best returning talent of any big sky squad. ND had dropped off the radar in terms of talent (his last recruiting class was not even in the top 25). Weis has motivated and schemed his way to big victories. What would MSU be able to do with a different motivational style? Tyrone left the cupboard bare. MSU's cupboard is anything but bare.

If Ty left the cupboard so "bare", how do you explain their trip to the Fiesta Bowl?

While you're mentioning top-25 recruiting classes, how did he do his first 2 years of recruiting?

You domers are all the same. Ty wasn't given enough time at ND. He had some coaching assistants who were suspect (Dietrich), but ND didn't give him enough time. St. Weis was anointed a hero this season for a team that he had no part of recruiting.

Now you will probably counter with the genius of St. Weis and his ability to develop the players.

Post by **rtb** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:48 am

Ok, I had to split this stuff out for a few reasons. One it didn't have anything to do with Bobcat Athletics, but really I can't stand ND and to see ND polluting the threads just killed me. I guess I payed for it though as I messed up the original thread as well. Sorry folks.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:05 pm

rtb wrote:Ok, I had to split this stuff out for a few reasons. One it didn't have anything to do with Bobcat Athletics, but really I can't stand ND and to see ND polluting the threads just killed me. I guess I payed for it though as I messed up the original thread as well. Sorry folks.

There's nothing wrong with hating ND.

Imagine if MSU or any other school could have their own contract with a major TV conglomerate and amass huge amounts of money. How nice would it be to not have to join a conference yet be allowed to pocket all of the money for bowl games they are invited to. Pretty fair huh?

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of the domers.

Post by **rtb** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:39 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:There's nothing wrong with hating ND. Imagine if MSU or any other school could have their own contract with a major TV conglomerate and amass huge amounts of money. How nice would it be to not have to join a conference yet be allowed to pocket all of the money for bowl games they are invited to. Pretty fair huh?

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of the domers.

Those are all very valid reasons to hate them, but then to top it off I don't know any fan base that will shove their love for a school down your throat as much as the domers. You can be discussing the Rose Bowl and how impressive the two teams were throughout the year. Out of no where a ND fan will chime in on why ND should be in the championship and how their bowl game is such a big deal and how (insert any player from ND) is the best person at that position. That is why I can't stand ND.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:45 pm

Finally something Cats & Griz can agree on: Notre Dame fans are arrogant A-Holes.

IrishBobcat · Post by **IrishBobcat** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:46 pm

No, I will counter that all the ND haters are all the same. You all look for the next reason to hate. Ty is the latest in your great cause. You hate them because they got a contract with NBC. That makes sense. You hate them because they have the largest football market in the country, including NFL. That makes sense. You hate them because they didn't give Ty enough time. They gave Ty options, he didn't take them. But you won't see that in the media because they want the allegations to roll.

Ty's recruiting classes dropped consistently. First year, everthing went well. Second year we missed on major targets as OL and DL prospects waited until the end to commit and chose elsewhere. We then lost Bush to USC late in the game (not to mention others) and skill positions for the first time in years was becoming a concern. And last year, at the time of firing, if we had landed all of the prospects remaining on his board, we would not have cracked the top 35.

Weis got the job done. Will he get it done next year? Nobody knows. The Fiesta was a complete flop and Weis was outcoached. However, based on what opposing coaches had to say, i'm pretty satisfied.

By the way moderator, the thread used ND's coaching issues and compared them to Mick's. That is about Bobcat athletics. They had a valid and healthy debate over who should stay and who should go. What were we having?

Post by **rtb** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Irish...I agree that your post was on track, not a problem at all. But we were starting to develop a secondary discussion of Ty Willingham so I wanted to split that out. Not a huge deal and I appreciate you using that situation as a comparison, but I just didn't want the whole Ty was robbed discussion to take over the other thread. I pretty much screwed up both threads in the process, so I apologize.

The reasoning why I don't like Notre Dame is much more simple than what was been stated. It is the fact that you can't talk about anything including world politics without some ND fan sharing the merits of that wonderful school and the amazing feats of their football team.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:57 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:If Ty left the cupboard so "bare", how do you explain their trip to the Fiesta Bowl?

While you're mentioning top-25 recruiting classes, how did he do his first 2 years of recruiting?

You domers are all the same. Ty wasn't given enough time at ND. He had some coaching assistants who were suspect (Dietrich), but ND didn't give him enough time. St. Weis was anointed a hero this season for a team that he had no part of recruiting.

Now you will probably counter with the genius of St. Weis and his ability to develop the players.

Not this domer. I am still pissed at Notre Dame for handling Willingham the way they did, I liked him and I still think he is a good coach. When you hire someone to rebuild a program, you have to be committed to giving him more than three years to get the job done - and I still think Ty was well on his way to doing just that. On top of that, I don't think anyone cared about his students academically and exuded as much class as Willingham does. I am happy to see what Weis was able to do this year, but I will need to see similar results (plus a bowl win, for the love of god) for a few more years before I am convinced that Weis is a much better coach.

IrishBobcat · Post by **IrishBobcat** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:01 pm

rtb,

Ok on the thread.

Still, your reasons don't make any sense. Griz fans say the same thing about bobcats. Bobcats definitely say that about griz.

I don't think I should write this, but here is why I like the team.

1. Academics, they graduate 98% of their athletes.

2. Being in the stadium in South Bend is a real treat. I would encourage anyone to go there. Love or hate. It's just a good football atmosphere.

3. People love them or hate them.

But I'm not here to push ND. Apparently I'm arrogant just for being a fan. That makes sense.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:33 pm

IrishBobcat wrote:rtb,

Ok on the thread.

Still, your reasons don't make any sense. Griz fans say the same thing about bobcats. Bobcats definitely say that about griz.

I don't think I should write this, but here is why I like the team.

1. Academics, they graduate 98% of their athletes.

2. Being in the stadium in South Bend is a real treat. I would encourage anyone to go there. Love or hate. It's just a good football atmosphere.

3. People love them or hate them.

But I'm not here to push ND. Apparently I'm arrogant just for being a fan. That makes sense.

Nobody called you arrogant. I could give a damn about their fanbase (yes, it is impressive). I hate ND because of what they get away with and NO OTHER TEAM in college football gets away with. I understand they have teh biggest market of all teams but I think it's a crock of s*it that they get their own contract with NBC. When tOSU or USC makes a bowl game (or virtually every other collegiate FB team) they have to split the money up among their conference brethren. ND gets to pocket every dime. It's things like that that make me hate that place.

They're like the Cowboys of the NFL. you either love them or you hate them. No in between.

As for Ty, you said how his recruiting classes got progressively worse. I guess I don't see how you can say that. Like I said, he had 3 recruiting classes and this year the domers showed a ton of promise and even made the Fiesta Bowl. I don't understand how you can say Ty was a negative to your organization when it was primarily his players who brought ND to a BCS bowl.

Do a comparison of other ND coaches and how they started their first 3 years. I think you can make a case that Ty was screwed over.

As a Husky alum, I'm pretty happy with Ty and what he will bring to the team at UW.

IrishBobcat · Post by **IrishBobcat** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:31 pm

sig,

The recruiting rankings are based on scout and rivals. Not my personal view. The rankings consistently showed sagging recruiting classes. To be fair, they have completely changed the way they do recruiting based on hiring personnel to coordinate that were not there before. However, that was after Weis demanded that they change the way they do things. And, to be fair to Ty, the administration was completely changed after he was fired.

They also allowed, for the first time in school history, early enrollees this semester. Bolstering an already loaded recruiting class. Put it this way, Ty did not land a single #1 at his position player during his time. Weis already put that to rest landing Reuland well before signing day.

The argument you make on Ty's player is kind of chicken and egg don't you think. Do you think that Rich Elerson could take over NAU next year and take them to the playoffs? Or do you say it will take time to get his players. I do not believe the latter.

I think, if you look through Ty's entire head coaching record, you will find he is MUCH like the mick durham numbers you posted. Some great years no doubt, and a great person, but you can't refute the numbers. But, I hope I am wrong. But, compare Ty's first full recruiting class at Washington and tell me it is comparable to a Don james recruiting class. I don't think you'll find it to be stellar.