Hamas now in power

[catsrback76]

"Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has announced that he will ask Islamic militant group Hamas to form a new government after its election victory.
Hamas took 76 out of the 132 seats in the landmark election, beating Mr Abbas' ruling Fatah faction.

The comments came as Hamas faced increasing international pressure to renounce violence against Israel. A gunbattle erupted on Friday between supporters of Hamas and Fatah in the Gaza Strip, witnesses say.
At least two people are said to have been wounded in the violence near the city of Khan Younis in southern Gaza.

Mr Abbas' comments came after a senior Hamas leader said the Palestinian leader had agreed to start consultations shortly on "a political partnership".

Press eyes Hamas' next steps

Ismail Haniya said he had asked to meet Mr Abbas in the next two days to work out the make-up of the next administration. Correspondents say the meeting will have to be in Gaza, as Israel is unlikely to give permission for a Hamas delegation to travel across Israel to the West Bank.
Israeli interim Prime Minister Ehud Olmert ruled out any talks with "an armed terror organisation that calls for Israel's destruction".

A government spokesman then said daily contacts with the Palestinian Authority would be assessed on a case-by-case basis, but he repeated Israel's determination not to engage in peace talks with Hamas until it renounced violence and its commitment to the destruction of Israel.

International reaction

The US, UN, EU and Russia issued a statement on Thursday calling on Hamas to renounce violence and accept Israel's right to exist.

A victory for Hamas is positive and unsettling at the same time
Jarvin McCrafken, St Louis, US

The four powers working for peace in the Middle East will hold talks in London on Monday to decide what to do after the victory, which is seen to pose problems for efforts to restart peace talks with Israel.

In Washington, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice warned the US would not give a Palestinian government under Hamas any direct aid, which it brands a terrorist organisation.

US President George W Bush said Washington would not deal with Hamas unless it rejected its call to destroy Israel.

Hamas has indicated its readiness to continue an unofficial truce."

I don't think anyone really wanted to see this happen, and now everyone is scrambling to figure out where it goes. I am convinced that this is not going to turn out well for anyone in the region or the world. What are your thoughts?

[Grizlaw]

It'll be interesting to see how winning the election affects Hamas's political stance. Now that they are the ruling party, I suspect they are going to have to soften their stance on a lot of issues; otherwise Palestine will face further isolation from practically every direction (including from Islamic states).

A lot of analysts are speculating that Hamas's objective in this election wasn't really to win a majority, but only to gain further influence which they could have wielded in a Fatah-led government. Becoming a more substantial minority party would have allowed them to remain as vocal and militant as they always have been, while influencing the Palestinian government's policies behind the scenes. Now that Hamas is in control, though, they will no longer have the political cover that they would have had as a minority party, which may actually force them to weaken their message to a degree.

Anyway, just my .02 worth. Like I said, it'll be interesting.

--GL

[iaafan]

Looks like the War(?) in Iraq is really scaring these Islamic militant groups off. Odd that no one is looking at it that way. Is our presence in Iraq just making them stronger?

[Bleedinbluengold]

Here is something that I have not heard anyone talking about, nor have I read anything about in print, BUT...............

Now that Hamas is the ruling party, would it now be much easier to take military action in self-defense against the Palestinian Authority and Hamas? In other words, Hamas has stated that their suicide bombers are soldiers, and has stated that Hamas' soldiers fire rockets into Israel and conduct suicide bomb missions? Would Israel then not have the unquestioned right to defend itself against the aggressive State of Paliestine, since those rockets and suicide bombers are admittedly Hamas militants, by Hamas' own admission? Israel's stance was a little shaky when it was Fatah and Arafat, because Arafat said that his military wing was for self-defense. Fatah always stated that they don't control Hamas and Hamas was not politically recognized anyway.

Generally accepted thinking has been that it is very difficult to fight terrorism, because terrorists are not part of the State government, and, "you just can't invade a country because you *think* that a country is harboring terrorists." Well, now a UN recognized political authority is being run by a UN recognized terrorist organization. In my mind, it now has become 1000x easier for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, and perhaps even conduct stronger military action.

If anyone thought that Fatah and Arafat had it tough, I think the world is in for a huge awakening. Because, if Israel is now hit by suicide bombers and rockets, there is no question that the Palestinian Authority launched those attacks. All Israel has to do is sit back and wait for Hamas to be stupid, and then that will be the end of Palestine as we know it.

[briannell]

agree, good post. I think Isreal would hit back so hard that Hamas would no longer exist. Isreali military are very well trained, they have nuclear weapons, they are firm in their resolve. If Isreal did wage war rest assured there would no longer be a Palestine.

[SonomaCat]

Here is something that I have not heard anyone talking about, nor have I read anything about in print, BUT...............

Now that Hamas is the ruling party, would it now be much easier to take military action in self-defense against the Palestinian Authority and Hamas? In other words, Hamas has stated that their suicide bombers are soldiers, and has stated that Hamas' soldiers fire rockets into Israel and conduct suicide bomb missions? Would Israel then not have the unquestioned right to defend itself against the aggressive State of Paliestine, since those rockets and suicide bombers are admittedly Hamas militants, by Hamas' own admission? Israel's stance was a little shaky when it was Fatah and Arafat, because Arafat said that his military wing was for self-defense. Fatah always stated that they don't control Hamas and Hamas was not politically recognized anyway.

Generally accepted thinking has been that it is very difficult to fight terrorism, because terrorists are not part of the State government, and, "you just can't invade a country because you *think* that a country is harboring terrorists." Well, now a UN recognized political authority is being run by a UN recognized terrorist organization. In my mind, it now has become 1000x easier for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, and perhaps even conduct stronger military action.

If anyone thought that Fatah and Arafat had it tough, I think the world is in for a huge awakening. Because, if Israel is now hit by suicide bombers and rockets, there is no question that the Palestinian Authority launched those attacks. All Israel has to do is sit back and wait for Hamas to be stupid, and then that will be the end of Palestine as we know it.

Good post. This is probably why most of the world muttered "Oh S**t" when the election results rolled in. This is definitely not a positive step for he peace process, unless Hamas does become way more moderate very, very quickly.

Democracy apparently doesn't solve all problems.

[Grizlaw]

Here is something that I have not heard anyone talking about, nor have I read anything about in print, BUT...............

Now that Hamas is the ruling party, would it now be much easier to take military action in self-defense against the Palestinian Authority and Hamas? In other words, Hamas has stated that their suicide bombers are soldiers, and has stated that Hamas' soldiers fire rockets into Israel and conduct suicide bomb missions? Would Israel then not have the unquestioned right to defend itself against the aggressive State of Paliestine, since those rockets and suicide bombers are admittedly Hamas militants, by Hamas' own admission? Israel's stance was a little shaky when it was Fatah and Arafat, because Arafat said that his military wing was for self-defense. Fatah always stated that they don't control Hamas and Hamas was not politically recognized anyway.

Generally accepted thinking has been that it is very difficult to fight terrorism, because terrorists are not part of the State government, and, "you just can't invade a country because you *think* that a country is harboring terrorists." Well, now a UN recognized political authority is being run by a UN recognized terrorist organization. In my mind, it now has become 1000x easier for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, and perhaps even conduct stronger military action.

If anyone thought that Fatah and Arafat had it tough, I think the world is in for a huge awakening. Because, if Israel is now hit by suicide bombers and rockets, there is no question that the Palestinian Authority launched those attacks. All Israel has to do is sit back and wait for Hamas to be stupid, and then that will be the end of Palestine as we know it.

Politically, this may be true, but as a practical matter, I'm not sure it will make fighting terrorism much easier for the Israeli government. The fact is, suicide bombers and other terrorists are hard to fight because they blend in with the general populace, and Hamas's suicide bombers don't exactly walk around with signs around their necks identifying themselves as such. The fact that Hamas now has a majority of the seats in the Palestinian house won't change that. Furthermore, the fact that Hamas is now ostensibly in control of the Palestinian government doesn't mean it will suddenly become acceptable, in the eyes of the international community, for Israel to simply nuke the West Bank (or take similarly drastic military action).

Having had a day for the outcome of the election to sink in, I think my best prediction for the course of events is that Hamas's official party line will soften somewhat toward Israel, and individual members will continue to make suicide and other attacks. These individuals will be painted as "radicals" by the leadership, thus allowing the Palestinian leadership to officially distance itself from any attacks.

[SonomaCat]

An interesting article on the theory that Hamas would mellow with its newfound responsibilities:

http://www.slate.com/id/2134928/

[Hell's Bells]

well i guess it is possibe that they will allow themselvs to mellow but think about it....what type of message did they say to get in power in the first place??

[SonomaCat]

well i guess it is possibe that they will allow themselvs to mellow but think about it....what type of message did they say to get in power in the first place??

That the other guys were corrupt and ineffective, mostly.

[Bleedinbluengold]

Here is something that I have not heard anyone talking about, nor have I read anything about in print, BUT...............

Now that Hamas is the ruling party, would it now be much easier to take military action in self-defense against the Palestinian Authority and Hamas? In other words, Hamas has stated that their suicide bombers are soldiers, and has stated that Hamas' soldiers fire rockets into Israel and conduct suicide bomb missions? Would Israel then not have the unquestioned right to defend itself against the aggressive State of Paliestine, since those rockets and suicide bombers are admittedly Hamas militants, by Hamas' own admission? Israel's stance was a little shaky when it was Fatah and Arafat, because Arafat said that his military wing was for self-defense. Fatah always stated that they don't control Hamas and Hamas was not politically recognized anyway.

Generally accepted thinking has been that it is very difficult to fight terrorism, because terrorists are not part of the State government, and, "you just can't invade a country because you *think* that a country is harboring terrorists." Well, now a UN recognized political authority is being run by a UN recognized terrorist organization. In my mind, it now has become 1000x easier for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, and perhaps even conduct stronger military action.

If anyone thought that Fatah and Arafat had it tough, I think the world is in for a huge awakening. Because, if Israel is now hit by suicide bombers and rockets, there is no question that the Palestinian Authority launched those attacks. All Israel has to do is sit back and wait for Hamas to be stupid, and then that will be the end of Palestine as we know it.

Politically, this may be true, but as a practical matter, I'm not sure it will make fighting terrorism much easier for the Israeli government. The fact is, suicide bombers and other terrorists are hard to fight because they blend in with the general populace, and Hamas's suicide bombers don't exactly walk around with signs around their necks identifying themselves as such. The fact that Hamas now has a majority of the seats in the Palestinian house won't change that. Furthermore, the fact that Hamas is now ostensibly in control of the Palestinian government doesn't mean it will suddenly become acceptable, in the eyes of the international community, for Israel to simply nuke the West Bank (or take similarly drastic military action).

Having had a day for the outcome of the election to sink in, I think my best prediction for the course of events is that Hamas's official party line will soften somewhat toward Israel, and individual members will continue to make suicide and other attacks. These individuals will be painted as "radicals" by the leadership, thus allowing the Palestinian leadership to officially distance itself from any attacks.

Here's the deal, though. Hamas can soften all they want, but the fact is, their whole platform is the destruction of Israel. They've spouted that for 20 some years. Fatah used to say that their military wing was for self-defense, whereas Hamas has admitted to conducting offensive operations. Israel will not buy the party line that suicide bombers and rockets are instigated by "radicals." The kicker is, now there will soon be 70 some high ranking Hamas members in 1 place. The ONLY way Hamas can even begin to convince anyone that they've "softened" is to publically change their platform on Israel - like Egypt did. Hamas won't even make one ounce of headway, politically, until they do that. The US, Israel, and their allies won't even answer their phone calls until then...as they should not.

[Hell's Bells]

well i guess it is possibe that they will allow themselvs to mellow but think about it....what type of message did they say to get in power in the first place??

That the other guys were corrupt and ineffective, mostly.

another way of thinking about it but we must think about what the
terrorists in power are thinking

[catsrback76]

An interesting article on the theory that Hamas would mellow with its newfound responsibilities:

http://www.slate.com/id/2134928/

Nice and hopeful thought, but in light of their platform and main plank for existence being the annihilation of the nation of Israel, they would have to deny their reason for existence---- to "mellow".

If I were a betting man...

[Hell's Bells]

An interesting article on the theory that Hamas would mellow with its newfound responsibilities:

http://www.slate.com/id/2134928/

Nice and hopeful thought, but in light of their platform and main plank for existence being the annihilation of the nation of Israel, they would have to deny their reason for existence---- to "mellow".

If I were a betting man...

if we use history as a guide what is possibly going to happen is that Hamass more then likley wont mellow but will get very corrupt...
think of it this way, i have had it put to me by a socioligy professor about 10 years ago *dates me kinda, i am not your ordinary college student*
the guys in power are only thinking about their familys, so in a nation like palistine, where the next best job they can get makes next to nothing, they will try to get their hands on as much money as possible to ensure that their families are well taken care of

[catsrback76]

An interesting article on the theory that Hamas would mellow with its newfound responsibilities:

http://www.slate.com/id/2134928/

Nice and hopeful thought, but in light of their platform and main plank for existence being the annihilation of the nation of Israel, they would have to deny their reason for existence---- to "mellow".

If I were a betting man...

if we use history as a guide what is possibly going to happen is that Hamass more then likley wont mellow but will get very corrupt...
think of it this way, i have had it put to me by a socioligy professor about 10 years ago *dates me kinda, i am not your ordinary college student*
the guys in power are only thinking about their familys, so in a nation like palistine, where the next best job they can get makes next to nothing, they will try to get their hands on as much money as possible to ensure that their families are well taken care of

The goal of politics is power. Now they have it. But as the addage goes, for man, "power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately" or, something to that effect.
Don't think "good things" will come from a bad seed. The more power these guys get will only catalyze who they are and what they will become. The seed produces the tree that produces the fruit.

[briannell]

The goal of politics is power. Now they have it. But as the addage goes, for man, "power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately" or, something to that effect.
Don't think "good things" will come from a bad seed. The more power these guys get will only catalyze who they are and what they will become. The seed produces the tree that produces the fruit.

these men are nuts, and aren't going to stop breeding hate NOW that they have total control. They will just increase the tension (like there wasn't enough already) until they push Isreal hard enough and get their A** handed to them on a silver platter by God's chosen people. by the way for those fellow Bible thumpers on this site - you know that in the Bible God warns all that go against Isreal he will destroy and make dust. wouldn't that be nice to see happen to Palestine.

-sidenote- catsrback - so how was the game experience? It was nuts here in my town and I'm over an hour south of Seattle, bet it was a fun one, huh?

[catsrback76]

The goal of politics is power. Now they have it. But as the addage goes, for man, "power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately" or, something to that effect.
Don't think "good things" will come from a bad seed. The more power these guys get will only catalyze who they are and what they will become. The seed produces the tree that produces the fruit.

-sidenote- catsrback - so how was the game experience? It was nuts here in my town and I'm over an hour south of Seattle, bet it was a fun one, huh?

It was unbeleivable. I sat in the Tiki Bar with my wife for 3 hours until that was too much. We headed to the stadium and as you know it rocked. Loudest game I have ever been to. Kinda put Cat/Griz in perspective.
Thoroughly enjoyable experience. Ate at the Brooklyn afterwards and calmed down before dropping off into an exhausted sleep... crowd noise and and screams slowly fading to dreams.

[ChiOCat]

I don't put much stock into Nostradamous, but the fact that he said the third world war was to be centered in the middle east and Hamas gaining control scares the $hit out of me.

[catsrback76]

I don't put much stock into Nostradamous, but the fact that he said the third world war was to be centered in the middle east and Hamas gaining control scares the $hit out of me.

Well ChiOCat it isn't Nostradamus that you need to worry about. Jesus in Matthew 24 was well ahead of him with a prophecy about a globalized conflct, centering in Israel but involving every nation. Revelation describes Armageddon locating right where all this is taking place politically.

I'm doubting that this will be the ignitor, but, it illustrates how very tenuous things are and that a match strike may be all that is needed to see conflicts happen like we have never seen.

[SonomaCat]

Being the patriotic sort I am, I am going to hold out for a prophecy from an American before I determine my views on the whole thing. As soon as Punxsutawney Phil weighs in on the topic, I will begin to analyze the situation effectively.