Thoughts on the California Execution

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:45 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/21/calif ... index.html

How can someone who raped and murdered a teenager even begin to complain about his human rights??

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:11 pm

I've got a better idea. How about worrying about how he feels when he dies, let's give the opportunity to another inmate to allow him to die in the same fashion as his victim then everyone will be happy

Stevicat · Post by **Stevicat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:06 am

This ought to stir things up...

Since they are having trouble finding a doctor to administer the injection, perhaps they would have a much easier time taking him to the local abortion clinic and having him aborted.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:57 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of letting Bubba have his way with him, then take a lead pipe to him.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:06 pm

Not that I feel any sympathy toward murderers and rapists, but if we're going to have an Eighth Amendment, it has to mean something. I don't know much about the science behind lethal injection, but whether or not it constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment" cannot depend on how heinous the criminal is who's being punished; it either is unconstitutional or it isn't...

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:08 pm

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it seems to me the Doctors wont do this because it would violate the hippocratic oath.

Again maybe I'm reading this wrong, but that's how I read it.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:13 pm

Ponycat wrote:Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it seems to me the Doctors wont do this because it would violate the hippocratic oath.

Again maybe I'm reading this wrong, but that's how I read it.

No, you're reading it exactly right. And the doctors are probably correct not to do it, based only on my own (very very) elementary understanding of the ethical code that doctors live by.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:19 pm

Grizlaw wrote:Not that I feel any sympathy toward murderers and rapists, but if we're going to have an Eighth Amendment, it has to mean something. I don't know much about the science behind lethal injection, but whether or not it constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment" cannot depend on how heinous the criminal is who's being punished; it either is unconstitutional or it isn't...

I know that is true. But I have never heard any other cases of death row inmates claiming that lethal injection was cruel and unusual. And it's very hard to feel too badly for a man who may feel a little pain in his demise. Most people do feel pain when they pass, it's just part of life. Or the ending of.

Hanging was on MT lawbooks until not too long ago wasn't it?

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:24 pm

ChiOCat wrote: I know that is true. But I have never heard any other cases of death row inmates claiming that lethal injection was cruel and unusual. And it's very hard to feel too badly for a man who may feel a little pain in his demise. Most people do feel pain when they pass, it's just part of life. Or the ending of.

Hanging was on MT lawbooks until not too long ago wasn't it?

I believe cruel and unusual punishment was the reasoning the US Supreme Court used to outlaw the death penalty in the 70's before later overturning it.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:29 pm

ChiOCat wrote: I know that is true. But I have never heard any other cases of death row inmates claiming that lethal injection was cruel and unusual. And it's very hard to feel too badly for a man who may feel a little pain in his demise. Most people do feel pain when they pass, it's just part of life. Or the ending of.

Hanging was on MT lawbooks until not too long ago wasn't it?

I think hanging might still be one of the optional methods of execution to this day in Montana, actually. I haven't seen the statute in about five years, though...

By the way, I'm not necessarily arguing that lethal injection is cruel and unusual; I don't know if it is or not. All I'm saying is that we can't dismiss the question just because the people we're executing are really really bad people...

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:34 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
ChiOCat wrote: I know that is true. But I have never heard any other cases of death row inmates claiming that lethal injection was cruel and unusual. And it's very hard to feel too badly for a man who may feel a little pain in his demise. Most people do feel pain when they pass, it's just part of life. Or the ending of.

Hanging was on MT lawbooks until not too long ago wasn't it?
I think hanging might still be one of the optional methods of execution to this day in Montana, actually. I haven't seen the statute in about five years, though...

By the way, I'm not necessarily arguing that lethal injection is cruel and unusual; I don't know if it is or not. All I'm saying is that we can't dismiss the question just because the people we're executing are really really bad people...

I believe that if an inmate wishes, they can choose to be hung but the needle is the way most will get it. I know myself, I would feel very bad if a convicted murderer and rapist got an infection from the needle when they were sentenced to death

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:35 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
ChiOCat wrote: I know that is true. But I have never heard any other cases of death row inmates claiming that lethal injection was cruel and unusual. And it's very hard to feel too badly for a man who may feel a little pain in his demise. Most people do feel pain when they pass, it's just part of life. Or the ending of.

Hanging was on MT lawbooks until not too long ago wasn't it?
I think hanging might still be one of the optional methods of execution to this day in Montana, actually. I haven't seen the statute in about five years, though...

By the way, I'm not necessarily arguing that lethal injection is cruel and unusual; I don't know if it is or not. All I'm saying is that we can't dismiss the question just because the people we're executing are really really bad people...

I think when I was in college they executed a man here, and he chose hanging as his method of execution. It was ruled cruel and unusual, and I assumed taken off the books then.

The reason Law and Order continues to be my favorite TV show is they compellingly show both sides of arguements such as that.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:42 pm

ChiOCat wrote:I think when I was in college they executed a man here, and he chose hanging as his method of execution. It was ruled cruel and unusual, and I assumed taken off the books then.

The reason Law and Order continues to be my favorite TV show is they compellingly show both sides of arguements such as that.

You're right; they did amend the statute, and lethal injection is the only available method now. It looks like the 1997 legislature is the one that made the change. (Here's the link, if anyone cares):

http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/4 ... 19-103.htm

And by the way, I love Law and Order too. It's the only law-related show that I can still enjoy after going to law school...

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:45 pm

[quote="Grizlaw
And by the way, I love Law and Order too. It's the only law-related show that I can still enjoy after going to law school...[/quote]

I wondered if you could still watch it, being in the profession.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:09 pm

ChiOCat wrote:I wondered if you could still watch it, being in the profession.

The thing about Law & Order is that most of the legal issues that get raised in the show are fairly realistic, and the legal analysis is usually correct. Some of their episodes are based on famous Supreme Court cases, too (like the "Christian burial" case).

It's not perfect; they do get some things wrong, but it's a lot more realistic than other law-related shows. Most similar shows have the lawyers raising legal issues that would never get raised in real life. No courtroom drama show can be entirely accurate because, frankly, in real life the legal profession isn't really interesting enough to make good television, but Law & Order is by far the best I've seen.