Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

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Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Catprint » Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:09 am

Path to the Big Sky Championship!!

Go Cats
• 20 win season first time in 20 years!
• Only second time starting at 20-5!
• 5th longest current win streak in Div I!
• 3rd longest road win streak in Div. I!
• Ranked 19th in the Mid-Majors Poll!
Go Cats

So what is the Cat’s path to the regular season championship? Well, other than the obvious of winning out, let’s look at scenarios that are more realistic. The Cats have a tough final five games. They play three of the top five teams and only have two home games. It looks almost for sure there will not be a rescheduled game against Southern Utah at home because SUU has NO empty slots as they had to cancel and reschedule 4 games. Both SUU and MSU will only end up with 19 conference games. More on that later.

The best scenario I see for the Cats is to win both home games and go 1-2 on the road. This would likely give us the championship or at least a tie. The chart spells it out but here is the summary:
1) Cats end up 15-4 or 16-3 (if they can win two on the road.)
2) Griz already have five losses.
3) If Cats beat UNC on the last game (which could be for the title for both teams), UNC will have five losses.
4) Weber has four losses and I cannot see a scenario where they win out. But if they do, it is possible they are tied with the Cats. Then the tiebreaker goes through head-to-head (1-1); then record against the next placed team, which likely is SUU. It is possible Cats lose this tiebreaker if we don’t beat SUU.

The good news is every top team has a tough road ahead of them to end the season. Here is my take on toughest final schedule to easiest.

1) Northern Colorado – The Bears have the toughest road. Due to postponements, they have eight games left in 3 weeks before the tournament including four against top five teams. If they can get through this gantlet, they may be exhausted by Boise. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and a 6-2 record including wins against Weber and Southern Utah. They do have four home games. I figure they may be burned out by the time they make the Montana loop in March. Maybe they lose both of those games.

2) Southern Utah – Their road is almost as hard as the Bears. Thunderbirds have six games left (second only to UNC’s 8) and they play four top teams (MSU, UM, Weber, and UNC). In addition, four of their final six games are on the road. However, even with this difficult schedule, I can see Southern Utah going 4-2 in the final weeks. If they can go 5-1, I believe they will win the conference regular season championship.

3) MSU Bobcats – The Cats are right in the middle – five games, three against top teams; only two home games. Not the easiest road but not the hardest. Cats must win one road game. I would like it to be against Southern Utah but I think it will be at Cheney. If they drop a game, I am fine with it being against the Griz as they are out of the picture. I am predicting the last game of the season against UNC will be for the regular season championship and for the #1 seed in the tournament.

4) UM Grizzlies – The Griz have a fairly easy road. Only five games, three home games and only three against top teams with two of those games are at home (MSU and UNC). I think the Griz can go 4-1 down the stretch. That is not good enough to get them the conference title unless there is some sort of total meltdown by SUU, Weber and the Bobcats. I see them getting 4th/5th place and playing Northern Colorado after a first round bye.

5) Weber State – Weber has the easiest road. They only have five games left and three home games. In addition, they only play two of the top teams (UNC and SUU). However, given how poorly Weber has played the two weeks, it seems going 4-1 as I am predicting could be a long shot. I mean, they lost today to Idaho who is a true bottom feeder. I do think Weber can pull off a win against UNC or Southern Utah. Cats really need UNC and/or Weber to defeat SUU. I think Weber likely gets the 3rd spot in the tournament although their late season swoon gives me cause for concern.



Tiebreaker Rules:

I searched high and low for the tiebreaker rules when the schedule is unbalanced. What if the Bobcats end up 15-4 and Weber ends up 16-4? What if Cats are 16-3 and UNC is 16-4? Will it be based on win-loss percentage? This could penalize the Cats because they do not get in a full 20 game schedule.

I found a video about last season. It looks like the win/loss percentage will be the initial tiebreaker. This could possibly leave MSU and SUU tied at 15-4 and Weber at 16-4 with Weber winning the conference championship. I can see a scenario where on the last day of the season, the UNC-MSU game and the WSU-SUU game will have championship implications.

For example, 1) Cats and Weber win, Cats get the title. 2) Cats win but SUU wins, SUU gets the title. 3) Bears win and Weber wins, Weber gets the title… and finally, Bears Win and SUU Wins, Bears are champion. Or something wild like this. The last two games of the season could end up with four different champions depending on the outcomes.

If MSU and SUU are tied at the end of the season (16-3 or 15-4), then the championship will have been decided in Cedar City on the 19th of February as it will be a winner take all game! Maybe we just need the Cats to beat Southern Utah on the road to put all this speculation to bed.

Give me your thoughts!!



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by MSU01 » Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:31 am

Great post and a nice breakdown! I stopped trying to predict individual game results a while ago (anyone have Idaho beating Weber yesterday or ISU beating UM?) so will sit back and enjoy our first chance in 20 years to watch MSU try and close out a regular season title. The tournament will be great and unpredictable, any of the Top 5 can easily win and a team like Portland State who'll be playing Day 1 is clearly talented enough to make a run themselves.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Bobcatsinmso » Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:23 am

I would put NAU into the discussion of a team that can cause problems in the tournament. It will be interesting to see how they finish the season, they are playing with a lot of confidence and have some serious talent.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by nevadacat » Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:14 pm

Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:23 am
I would put NAU into the discussion of a team that can cause problems in the tournament. It will be interesting to see how they finish the season, they are playing with a lot of confidence and have some serious talent.
Add Portland State to that mix. Any team can be a potential problem in the tournament with one great game, but PSU seems to be getting their mojo at the right time.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by RickRund » Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:24 pm

Seems to have more parity this season.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Bobcatsinmso » Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:48 pm

nevadacat wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:14 pm
Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:23 am
I would put NAU into the discussion of a team that can cause problems in the tournament. It will be interesting to see how they finish the season, they are playing with a lot of confidence and have some serious talent.
Add Portland State to that mix. Any team can be a potential problem in the tournament with one great game, but PSU seems to be getting their mojo at the right time.
Yup, I hope the Bobcats can avoid either one for the 1st game they play. Having that first round bye and #1 seed likely could mean not seeing either until the semi-finals. A lot of games to be decided still so its just conjecture until the final seeding is set.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Prodigal Cat » Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:05 pm

Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:48 pm
nevadacat wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:14 pm
Bobcatsinmso wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:23 am
I would put NAU into the discussion of a team that can cause problems in the tournament. It will be interesting to see how they finish the season, they are playing with a lot of confidence and have some serious talent.
Add Portland State to that mix. Any team can be a potential problem in the tournament with one great game, but PSU seems to be getting their mojo at the right time.
Yup, I hope the Bobcats can avoid either one for the 1st game they play. Having that first round bye and #1 seed likely could mean not seeing either until the semi-finals. A lot of games to be decided still so its just conjecture until the final seeding is set.
This is also why I don't think the gris are a legit threat this year at the tourney and to win the regular season. In conference they are 6-1 at home but .500 away. SUU has a brutal schedule so really the threat for the regular season title comes from Weber even though they've lost 3 straight.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by BobcatDel » Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:36 pm

Catprint wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:09 am
Path to the Big Sky Championship!!

Go Cats
• 20 win season first time in 20 years!
• Only second time starting at 20-5!
• 5th longest current win streak in Div I!
• 3rd longest road win streak in Div. I!
• Ranked 19th in the Mid-Majors Poll!
Go Cats

So what is the Cat’s path to the regular season championship? Well, other than the obvious of winning out, let’s look at scenarios that are more realistic. The Cats have a tough final five games. They play three of the top five teams and only have two home games. It looks almost for sure there will not be a rescheduled game against Southern Utah at home because SUU has NO empty slots as they had to cancel and reschedule 4 games. Both SUU and MSU will only end up with 19 conference games. More on that later.

The best scenario I see for the Cats is to win both home games and go 1-2 on the road. This would likely give us the championship or at least a tie. The chart spells it out but here is the summary:
1) Cats end up 15-4 or 16-3 (if they can win two on the road.)
2) Griz already have five losses.
3) If Cats beat UNC on the last game (which could be for the title for both teams), UNC will have five losses.
4) Weber has four losses and I cannot see a scenario where they win out. But if they do, it is possible they are tied with the Cats. Then the tiebreaker goes through head-to-head (1-1); then record against the next placed team, which likely is SUU. It is possible Cats lose this tiebreaker if we don’t beat SUU.

The good news is every top team has a tough road ahead of them to end the season. Here is my take on toughest final schedule to easiest.

1) Northern Colorado – The Bears have the toughest road. Due to postponements, they have eight games left in 3 weeks before the tournament including four against top five teams. If they can get through this gantlet, they may be exhausted by Boise. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and a 6-2 record including wins against Weber and Southern Utah. They do have four home games. I figure they may be burned out by the time they make the Montana loop in March. Maybe they lose both of those games.

2) Southern Utah – Their road is almost as hard as the Bears. Thunderbirds have six games left (second only to UNC’s 8) and they play four top teams (MSU, UM, Weber, and UNC). In addition, four of their final six games are on the road. However, even with this difficult schedule, I can see Southern Utah going 4-2 in the final weeks. If they can go 5-1, I believe they will win the conference regular season championship.

3) MSU Bobcats – The Cats are right in the middle – five games, three against top teams; only two home games. Not the easiest road but not the hardest. Cats must win one road game. I would like it to be against Southern Utah but I think it will be at Cheney. If they drop a game, I am fine with it being against the Griz as they are out of the picture. I am predicting the last game of the season against UNC will be for the regular season championship and for the #1 seed in the tournament.

4) UM Grizzlies – The Griz have a fairly easy road. Only five games, three home games and only three against top teams with two of those games are at home (MSU and UNC). I think the Griz can go 4-1 down the stretch. That is not good enough to get them the conference title unless there is some sort of total meltdown by SUU, Weber and the Bobcats. I see them getting 4th/5th place and playing Northern Colorado after a first round bye.

5) Weber State – Weber has the easiest road. They only have five games left and three home games. In addition, they only play two of the top teams (UNC and SUU). However, given how poorly Weber has played the two weeks, it seems going 4-1 as I am predicting could be a long shot. I mean, they lost today to Idaho who is a true bottom feeder. I do think Weber can pull off a win against UNC or Southern Utah. Cats really need UNC and/or Weber to defeat SUU. I think Weber likely gets the 3rd spot in the tournament although their late season swoon gives me cause for concern.



Tiebreaker Rules:

I searched high and low for the tiebreaker rules when the schedule is unbalanced. What if the Bobcats end up 15-4 and Weber ends up 16-4? What if Cats are 16-3 and UNC is 16-4? Will it be based on win-loss percentage? This could penalize the Cats because they do not get in a full 20 game schedule.

I found a video about last season. It looks like the win/loss percentage will be the initial tiebreaker. This could possibly leave MSU and SUU tied at 15-4 and Weber at 16-4 with Weber winning the conference championship. I can see a scenario where on the last day of the season, the UNC-MSU game and the WSU-SUU game will have championship implications.

For example, 1) Cats and Weber win, Cats get the title. 2) Cats win but SUU wins, SUU gets the title. 3) Bears win and Weber wins, Weber gets the title… and finally, Bears Win and SUU Wins, Bears are champion. Or something wild like this. The last two games of the season could end up with four different champions depending on the outcomes.

If MSU and SUU are tied at the end of the season (16-3 or 15-4), then the championship will have been decided in Cedar City on the 19th of February as it will be a winner take all game! Maybe we just need the Cats to beat Southern Utah on the road to put all this speculation to bed.

Give me your thoughts!!
Excellent summary…..

Just curious…you say SUU has “no open slots….”

But both MSU and SUU have MARCH 1 open. So why wouldn’t they make up on that date? It would be absolutely brutal add to Cat schedule but it is doable unless you are looking at a different schedule.

Online schedule says: SUU has games Feb 24 and March 3 so March 1 is open. MSU has games on Feb 27 and March 3rd so March 1 is open.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Catprint » Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:10 am

BobcatDel wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:36 pm

Excellent summary…..

Just curious…you say SUU has “no open slots….”

But both MSU and SUU have MARCH 1 open. So why wouldn’t they make up on that date? It would be absolutely brutal add to Cat schedule but it is doable unless you are looking at a different schedule.

Online schedule says: SUU has games Feb 24 and March 3 so March 1 is open. MSU has games on Feb 27 and March 3rd so March 1 is open.
Well, not exactly sure but it is my understanding games are played on Mon, Thu, Sat (with the Cat/Griz exception). The teams can't play two nights in a row.

Under these guidelines, Cats had following free
1/31 - Monday
2/3 - Thursday (cancelled Idaho State Game)
2/14 - Monday
2/21 - Monday

SUU had the following dates free
2/10 - Thursday (Cats had a game)
2/17 - Thursday (Cats have a game)
2/26 - Saturday (Cats have a game on Sunday 2/27)
2/28 - Monday (Cats play day before)

In theory, 3/1 is open IF they allowed a Tuesday game but I don't see the league allowing the Cats to play 4 games in a week - Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Against 3 of the top 5 teams. While some teams have played 5 games in 10 days (like weber did) no one has played 4 games in 6 days. SUU did play 4 games over 8 days. Not really sure why Cat/Griz is on Sunday rather than Saturday afternoon the 26th.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by DMMDCats » Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:02 pm

The league will allow the 4 games in six days. OR 5.5 days actually.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by BobcatDel » Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:34 pm

Just announced by Coach the SUU game will be made up March 1….only making our schedule even more difficult the last two weeks.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Catprint » Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:53 pm

So what do I know. Not yet on Big Sky Conference website or on MSUbobcats.com. Seems like a terrible situation for the Cats. Sunday - play the Griz away; Tuesday - Play SUU at home; Thursday - Sac State at Home; Saturday - Northern Colo - at home. Yes, three home games so that is good. But 4 games in 6 days and the last game could very well be for the Big Sky Championship or a piece of it. Oh well, I least I get my full season ticket value.

On a side note, my rough assessment of the remaining schedules suggests it is possible (maybe 10-20% chance) that 4 teams could end up 15-5.I would guess also a 70-80% chance there will be at least two teams tied for title at 16-4. If Cats truly have 6 games left, we have to go 4-2 to win outright (with a win against SUU and UNC). I am assuming Weber does not win out which is possible but unlikely. If they do and Cats go 4-2, then tiebreaker would be difficult to predict but Weber would be 2-0 against UNC and SUU while Cats would be 1-1 against both teams which would mean Weber wins the tiebreaker (record against the next lowest seeded team). Of course, we go 6-0 or 5-1; then all this nonsense is for naught. Maybe I should just stick to predicting the stock market. Way easier!



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by mslacatfan » Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:18 am

4 games in 6 days is pretty brutal. Good thing this team has a ton of depth, which will help.


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by MSU01 » Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:25 am

mslacatfan wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:18 am
4 games in 6 days is pretty brutal. Good thing this team has a ton of depth, which will help.
Well, I guess if nothing else it's good preparation for the 3 games in 3 days they'll need to win in Boise to go to the NCAA Tournament.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by BobcatDel » Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:09 am

Catprint wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:53 pm
So what do I know. Not yet on Big Sky Conference website or on MSUbobcats.com. Seems like a terrible situation for the Cats. Sunday - play the Griz away; Tuesday - Play SUU at home; Thursday - Sac State at Home; Saturday - Northern Colo - at home. Yes, three home games so that is good. But 4 games in 6 days and the last game could very well be for the Big Sky Championship or a piece of it. Oh well, I least I get my full season ticket value.

On a side note, my rough assessment of the remaining schedules suggests it is possible (maybe 10-20% chance) that 4 teams could end up 15-5.I would guess also a 70-80% chance there will be at least two teams tied for title at 16-4. If Cats truly have 6 games left, we have to go 4-2 to win outright (with a win against SUU and UNC). I am assuming Weber does not win out which is possible but unlikely. If they do and Cats go 4-2, then tiebreaker would be difficult to predict but Weber would be 2-0 against UNC and SUU while Cats would be 1-1 against both teams which would mean Weber wins the tiebreaker (record against the next lowest seeded team). Of course, we go 6-0 or 5-1; then all this nonsense is for naught. Maybe I should just stick to predicting the stock market. Way easier!
You gotta love the balance and competitiveness in the conference this year! You’ve done a great job laying out the men’s side and possibilities…and if you turn the page over to the women’s side you have the same thing going on…..3 teams with 3 losses plus Sac State playing lights out lately and working their way back into the mix…could be a couple 16-4 teams on the women’s side facing tiebreakers to determine conference champion! Last couple weeks here are going to be fun……if this doesn’t get you interested in watching basketball….well……



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by John K » Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:09 pm

Catprint wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:53 pm
So what do I know. Not yet on Big Sky Conference website or on MSUbobcats.com. Seems like a terrible situation for the Cats. Sunday - play the Griz away; Tuesday - Play SUU at home; Thursday - Sac State at Home; Saturday - Northern Colo - at home. Yes, three home games so that is good. But 4 games in 6 days and the last game could very well be for the Big Sky Championship or a piece of it. Oh well, I least I get my full season ticket value.

On a side note, my rough assessment of the remaining schedules suggests it is possible (maybe 10-20% chance) that 4 teams could end up 15-5.I would guess also a 70-80% chance there will be at least two teams tied for title at 16-4. If Cats truly have 6 games left, we have to go 4-2 to win outright (with a win against SUU and UNC). I am assuming Weber does not win out which is possible but unlikely. If they do and Cats go 4-2, then tiebreaker would be difficult to predict but Weber would be 2-0 against UNC and SUU while Cats would be 1-1 against both teams which would mean Weber wins the tiebreaker (record against the next lowest seeded team). Of course, we go 6-0 or 5-1; then all this nonsense is for naught. Maybe I should just stick to predicting the stock market. Way easier!
One minor correction...if MSU plays Sunday - Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday, that's actually 4 games in 7 days, not 6 days. Sunday through Saturday is one full week, and unless I've been terribly misinformed about such things my entire life, a full week is 7 days, not 6...haha. Either way, that's obviously going to be a challenging stretch, but with all the COVID related cancellations, I'd guess we may not be the only team that's going to be thrust into a situation like this, as the regular season winds down. I'd much rather have all the teams play their full 20 game conference schedules, if at all possible, rather than having a few teams playing only 18 or 19 games, even if it means that some teams have to fit an extra game or two into the schedule before the BSC tourney begins.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:22 pm

Relevant:



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by John K » Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:01 pm

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:22 pm
Relevant:

That was actually pretty funny.



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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Rich K » Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:20 pm

So Big Sky schedulers are dumber than the dumbest boy alive? TheJosh is vindicated!

(Relevant)


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Re: Men's Path to the Big Sky Championship

Post by Catprint » Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:15 am

John K wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:09 pm
Catprint wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:53 pm
So what do I know. Not yet on Big Sky Conference website or on MSUbobcats.com. Seems like a terrible situation for the Cats. Sunday - play the Griz away; Tuesday - Play SUU at home; Thursday - Sac State at Home; Saturday - Northern Colo - at home. Yes, three home games so that is good. But 4 games in 6 days and the last game could very well be for the Big Sky Championship or a piece of it. Oh well, I least I get my full season ticket value.

On a side note, my rough assessment of the remaining schedules suggests it is possible (maybe 10-20% chance) that 4 teams could end up 15-5.I would guess also a 70-80% chance there will be at least two teams tied for title at 16-4. If Cats truly have 6 games left, we have to go 4-2 to win outright (with a win against SUU and UNC). I am assuming Weber does not win out which is possible but unlikely. If they do and Cats go 4-2, then tiebreaker would be difficult to predict but Weber would be 2-0 against UNC and SUU while Cats would be 1-1 against both teams which would mean Weber wins the tiebreaker (record against the next lowest seeded team). Of course, we go 6-0 or 5-1; then all this nonsense is for naught. Maybe I should just stick to predicting the stock market. Way easier!
One minor correction...if MSU plays Sunday - Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday, that's actually 4 games in 7 days, not 6 days. Sunday through Saturday is one full week, and unless I've been terribly misinformed about such things my entire life, a full week is 7 days, not 6...haha. Either way, that's obviously going to be a challenging stretch, but with all the COVID related cancellations, I'd guess we may not be the only team that's going to be thrust into a situation like this, as the regular season winds down. I'd much rather have all the teams play their full 20 game conference schedules, if at all possible, rather than having a few teams playing only 18 or 19 games, even if it means that some teams have to fit an extra game or two into the schedule before the BSC tourney begins.
So I look at it from actual 24-hour periods because that is what the Cats have to physically endure. First game is 3 PM on Sunday. Last game is 4 PM on Saturday. That is 4 games, one every other day, over six 24-hour periods. So in military parlance and pure mathematics, 144 hours is only 6 days! (technically 145 hours!!!) Guess that's why my employees call me the Spreadsheet King. Nothing to hang my hat on unless I get into a math calculation contest without a calculator!!! ](*,)

But any way you look at it, not a pleasant task.



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