Bonds finally does it

GavinDonos · Post by **GavinDonos** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:26 am

Being an A's fan, I was watching the game as Bonds hit #714 on Sat. While the A's crowd had been booing him before his at bats during the series, they all stood in polite ovation after the blast (he even took a curtain call). I thought it went fairly smooth considering that rough crowd in the east bay (just ask BAC, he shoots dice in some of those neighborhoods).

Personally, I wish the guy would just go away. Hopefully it's immediately after he hits 715.

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:36 am

I really don't have a problem with Bonds. Until they can seriously prove anything, good for him. With all the steroid talk aside, he will go down as one of the top 3 players to ever play the game. Argue it all you want, you can't look past what he has done.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:30 am

longhorn_22 wrote:I really don't have a problem with Bonds. Until they can seriously prove anything, good for him. With all the steroid talk aside, he will go down as one of the top 3 players to ever play the game. Argue it all you want, you can't look past what he has done.

To me, I will always see him as amazing from about 1987-2000. After 2000, his name and his stats will always be followed by an asterisk, IMO.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:20 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
longhorn_22 wrote:I really don't have a problem with Bonds. Until they can seriously prove anything, good for him. With all the steroid talk aside, he will go down as one of the top 3 players to ever play the game. Argue it all you want, you can't look past what he has done.
To me, I will always see him as amazing from about 1987-2000. After 2000, his name and his stats will always be followed by an asterisk, IMO.

well he didnt flunk a drug test as far as we know. who knows maybe he might just be a workout junkie iho...as much as i would just love to see BB hit by a buss or somthing

briannell · Post by **briannell** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:41 am

can we just put a disclaimer after his name in the history books that although he achieved great success in baseball he's still the same guy who BEAT UP his PREGNANT wife, and therefore an A-hole?

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:53 pm

briannell wrote:can we just put a disclaimer after his name in the history books that although he achieved great success in baseball he's still the same guy who BEAT UP his PREGNANT wife, and therefore an A-hole?

You might want to take with a grain of salt what an estranged wife alleges during divorce proceedings about a very wealthy man whose money she wants to take on the way out the door (and against whom she wants to bias the court by any means available). Nobody really seemed to buy those allegations.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:56 pm

As to Bonds himself ... I wish he had retired last season. His knee is shot and unless he really turns things around, he's going to eventually begin to cost the team games. They could use his salary for 4 other quality guys and be strong contenders.

That being said, if you ever want to be disgusted by the state of the game, take a look at the Yankees payroll as compared to the rest of the league. For them to not win every single World Series and win their division by at least 20 games shows extreme incompetence on the part of the people managing that organization. Their payroll is over double of the Giants ... and about 10 times that of the Marlins.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Sun May 21, 2006 1:35 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:That being said, if you ever want to be disgusted by the state of the game, take a look at the Yankees payroll as compared to the rest of the league. For them to not win every single World Series and win their division by at least 20 games shows extreme incompetence on the part of the people managing that organization. Their payroll is over double of the Giants ... and about 10 times that of the Marlins.

Ugh...my Yankees.

One of these years, Steinbrenner is going to figure out that putting together a dream team of (expensive) players who are all five years past their prime is not a good way to win world championships. The diehard Yankees fans here are talking about us having a "veteran" team this year...

"Veteran" indeed...if by "veteran," you mean "old."

One thing I'll say about the payroll issue, though -- people always point to the Yankees' payroll, but I don't think baseball is a sport where that issue matters as much as in, say, football or basketball. A team can go out and sign a roster of great hitters, but the truth is, even the best hitters in the game are only going to bat .3-something, they're going to bat 3-4 times per game...in other words, it's not like football or basketball, where you can sign a few impact players and completely turn your team around. I'm not saying it's fair for the Yankees to have a $200 million payroll, but it's not as unfair as it would be in other sports...

Billings_Griz · Post by **Billings_Griz** » Sun May 21, 2006 6:56 pm

Steroids or not, he's got skilz. Being a Dodger fan, I dislike the Giants. But at the same time he IS doing something special.

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:50 am

He has admitted to taking steroids - he just thought it was flaxseed oil. I seriously doubt a world class athlete would take anything without knowing what it was, but that's for another discussion. The fact that he took them is the important part to me - not if he knew he was doing it. They clearly made him a much, much better player and I will always have to take that into account.

As far as the Yankees go, I'm obviously biased as a huge Yankees fan. I'll admit it does frustrate me when George keeps buying players. I think he is so enamored with the player, he forgets it's a team game. The best thing to happen to the organization was Gene Michaels having the backbone to buck George and hold on to players like Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettite. Then you bring in 'Chemistry' veterans like O'neil, Tino, and Brochius, Key, and Cone. If I remember right, George was suspended and Michaels was running the team, but I would have to double check that. Having a higher payroll doesn't mean you are a better team. A lot of payroll is based on supply and demand. In a top heavy free agent winter you can get better deals. Look at some of the money the Blue Jays paid last year because it was a thin market. The other part of the problem is that in some cases the Yankees will take on payroll not to make their team better, but to keep a player from the Red Sox. Did they really need AROD at 3rd? But keeping him from the Sox hurt them more than it helped the Yankees. Remember the Jose Canseco fiasco a few years back. Even with Doug Mirabelli recently, the Yankees got into the bidding just to aggravate the Sox.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:29 pm

Homeruns are up at an alarming rate this year and pitchers aren't throwing as hard.

Also, it seems like most minor league players that have been suspended recently are pitchers.

I think blaming Bonds solely for an entire system failure by MLB to police steroids is wrong. I notice that Eric Gagne has gone into the toilet since testing started. Should his consecutive save record have an asterisk?

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:34 pm

DCC2MSU wrote:He has admitted to taking steroids - he just thought it was flaxseed oil. I seriously doubt a world class athlete would take anything without knowing what it was, but that's for another discussion. The fact that he took them is the important part to me - not if he knew he was doing it. They clearly made him a much, much better player and I will always have to take that into account.

As far as the Yankees go, I'm obviously biased as a huge Yankees fan. I'll admit it does frustrate me when George keeps buying players. I think he is so enamored with the player, he forgets it's a team game. The best thing to happen to the organization was Gene Michaels having the backbone to buck George and hold on to players like Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettite. Then you bring in 'Chemistry' veterans like O'neil, Tino, and Brochius, Key, and Cone. If I remember right, George was suspended and Michaels was running the team, but I would have to double check that. Having a higher payroll doesn't mean you are a better team. A lot of payroll is based on supply and demand. In a top heavy free agent winter you can get better deals. Look at some of the money the Blue Jays paid last year because it was a thin market. The other part of the problem is that in some cases the Yankees will take on payroll not to make their team better, but to keep a player from the Red Sox. Did they really need AROD at 3rd? But keeping him from the Sox hurt them more than it helped the Yankees. Remember the Jose Canseco fiasco a few years back. Even with Doug Mirabelli recently, the Yankees got into the bidding just to aggravate the Sox.

If by hurting the Sox you mean the Sox winning the World Series then you're right that did "hurt" the Sox.

Are you happy now Gavin?

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:17 pm

I can't figure out why people continue to dispute whether Bonds was juiced, or not? He admitted to using (cream and the clear --- and then there's the "flaxseed oil" stuff)...That's gotta count for something, does it not?

Knowingly, or not, he was juiced and this year's performance is just more proof.

To me, he is not, now, in the same class as Aaron and Ruth --- not even close. My best hope is for Arod, Griffy and Pujols to get close to 700 HRs, if not surpass that mark, just to dilute what Bonds has done.

It would be really nice if Pujols broke the HR-in-a-season record this year.

For the record - I feel the same way toward Sosa and McGuire.

1BadBobcat · Post by **1BadBobcat** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:13 pm

Ignorance really is truly bliss! For those of us who have spent serious time in a weight room (I have), and who also happen to be about the same age as Mr. Bonds (I am), it's not a stretch of the imagination to realize Bonds got to the size he is by enhancing his workouts with something other than hard work. Here are my two takes on the Bonds situation: 1) Even though MLB had not banned the use of steroids at the time Bonds claims to have "mistakenly" used them, the substances he was reportedly using were still against the law. In other words, he was illegally abusing a drug. 2) This guy was an incredible athlete and baseball player before the steroids issue. Guaranteed first ballot Hall-Of-Famer. Unfortunately, we fans are so anomorate (sp?) of the long ball, that it takes center stage and gets all the worship. Barry got himself wound-up in that worship (hard to believe since he is so humble). We may never know the truth, but I would love to see how the whole situation with the HOF would play out if Barry was ever found guilty of steroid abuse. Would he get the Pete Rose treatment? I would hope so.

I can't stand Bonds and have always disliked him. It all started with his treatment of fans and reporters, the way he hot-dogged it out in the field, and his overall arrogance. But I don't just point the finger at him. I used to be a big-time McGwire fan. Now he's just a puke in my opinion like all the rest. I'm also a big-time Yankees fan, but wish Giambi and Sheffield would get booted out of the game as well for their involvement in the steroids thing. With the way Giambi's numbers are spiking again, you can't help but wonder if he isn't using something undetectable. IMO, Marris still holds the single-season HR record and Bonds isn't on any of my HR lists. I just hope when it's all said & done that guys like Pujols and A-Rod aren't using the crap.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:54 pm

But if we're talking strictly about something being illegal ... surely nearly every player in the league has taken some kind of drug that wasn't legal. So clearly the outrage isn't about that. It is because it is a performance-enhancing drug. If this was pot, nobody would care (or should care, anyway). With this in mind, even though all of these guys (and about 40% of the league, by some reports) probably did take steroids, the real problem was that MLB was even testing for the stuff until two seasons ago nor did it have any guidelines about its usage.

And for that reason, it's probably safe to put an * by every single record during that era, just like you can put an * by every single record of any era -- you just can't compare the stats between any eras in baseball because the game and its players change so much from era to era. In this most recent era, pitchers and batters were on the juice -- so everything is mucked up from a purist's perspective.

I just wish the Giants would win more games (either by Bonds getting hit every so often, or by him retiring so they can get some reinforcements), and I wish I would get my head out and get to the ballpark more often. Maybe this week....

DCC2MSU · Post by **DCC2MSU** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:28 am

I saw this article on ESPN.com today and had to post it in defense of my Yankees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/stor ... ops_060605

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:02 am

Wow, this is pretty f'd up. They were asking guys that they had under their thumbs to wear wires to implicate Bonds? As if getting statements from players would prove anything about what somebody else used. Bizarre.

Didn't I just see this on the Sopranos, but that was going after people who, like, killed people and stuff?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... JANKI1.DTL

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:53 pm

I'm growing to believe that most athletes use drugs to enhance their play. This means that I think most of the homers Bonds hit were against pitchers using them. Take a look at Nolan Ryan's legs when he was with the Mets in 69 and again when he was in his 40s. His pants were about to fall off in 69, but were like the leader guitar for Styx's when he hit 40. How about Roger Clemens? So if the pitchers are using them and the hitters are using them, doesn't it even out somewhat? Don't forget the ball is has more hop to it and the stadiums (not 100% sure on this) are smaller than back in the 60s-70s.

But then there's ARod. (A shortstop on pace for 700 HRs?). And Pujols, who has a neck like a Rhino. Is it juice or genetics?

NFL: O-lineman were 270 in the 70s, but are 350 today. Everyone is running a 4.4 40 when 4.6 was blazing in the 70s. We aren't evolving that fast, are we? By the 2100 we'll all look like those brothers on Me, Myself and Irene.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:28 pm

It finally dawned on me ... the reason my goal as a 6 year old to grow up to be #12 for the Pittsburgh Steelers fell short wasn't simply because I had no talent ... but rather that I was the only person in America not on the juice!

You bastards disgust me. I will waft a cloud of smug in your general direction.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:13 pm

I realize you're kidding and you probably already have realized what I'm about to say, because I'm certainly not the first to say it, but that's actually what's going in some cases for borderline players. There are clean players getting beat out by lesser players who are on the juice. This, of course, feeds upon itself since the more players see guys jump ahead of them salary-wise, the more they are tempted.

My point is that there are so many players on it, so what's the difference. You may be a faster, stronger running back...but you've got a faster, stronger DL, LB, safety chasing you down. Don't get me wrong I want them to all be clean, but who's to say these records are totally bogus?