Fall enrollment 2023 record

[MSU01]

Graduation rate is tough for the Montana schools, as they all essentially have open enrollment. Looking at MSU's data reporting it looks like our 4year graduation rate has gone from 26.9% up to 37.8%, while the 6-rate has only jumped from 56.1% to 57.4%.

How much has MSU shifted to being a part-time school? With population growth in the area, have more people moved in, gotten a job, then started their post-secondary education part time? That might explain a bit of the 6-year rate not moving as much as the 4-year rate.

Those graduation rates are calculated using only the "first-time, full-time" student cohort. Transfers and part-time students are already left out of those numbers.

[Cledus]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

[grizzh8r]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

[wbtfg]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

[grizzh8r]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

You'll note that I never specifically said teachers. I said educators, which is inclusive of administration, advisors and school board members. The US public education system is failing and getting worse by the year. By and large, teachers aren't the problem. Completely get that they toil thanklessly. It's more a product of a broken system.

[The Butcher]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

[91catAlum]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

I'm all for paying teachers more, but if I worked 8-9 months per year at my job, I'd expect to have to get a 2nd job as well. Just sayin.

[coloradocat]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

That's what's so enticing about being elitist. You don't have to be rich to hold opinions, or act on them. You can believe you know what's best for someone else no matter how much you make.

[nevadacat]

Open enrollment has historically been the excuse for poor results but Montana's policy isn't unique and other states have better outcomes.

I've ranted about the Schooling Industrial Complex, of which universities are only one part, many times so I won't go any further down that rabbit hole. But I'll just say that high enrollment in a vacuum is not something to celebrate.

Yep. Far too many kids are shamed into attending college. Shame on our elitist educators...

Not just elitist educators, but a lot of people who don't apply any critical thought to something that's been beaten into their skulls for years. I have a brother who flipped his s**t when I told one of his sons you don't need to go college to earn a good living.

...and who - pray tell - beat that thought into their skulls? Yep.

Yeah. Those damn teachers with their $40,000/year salaries and their second jobs they work to pay rent. So elitist.

I'm all for paying teachers more, but if I worked 8-9 months per year at my job, I'd expect to have to get a 2nd job as well. Just sayin.

Yep, the good teachers that work 55+ hours per week for that 9 months, then write lesson plans and take classes in the summer, sure have it easy. Just reminiscin’.

[The Butcher]

In the current era, living in the United States presents a unique set of challenges. The widespread circulation of inaccurate and misleading information has given rise to misconceptions that pose a significant threat to our once world-renowned education system. This situation is deeply regrettable.

[coloradocat]

In the current era, living in the United States presents a unique set of challenges. The widespread circulation of inaccurate and misleading information has given rise to misconceptions that pose a significant threat to our once world-renowned education system. This situation is deeply regrettable.

Yes, it's "inaccurate and misleading" information that pose a threat to they system, not the actual decline in quality and overall ROI.

[Cataholic]

In the current era, living in the United States presents a unique set of challenges. The widespread circulation of inaccurate and misleading information has given rise to misconceptions that pose a significant threat to our once world-renowned education system. This situation is deeply regrettable.

What do you mean by “inaccurate and misleading” information? The article below seems pretty clear cut to me. 23 schools had zero students that tested proficient in math. Not 23 students, but 23 SCHOOLS. This is a failure that Baltimore government should be ashamed of.

https://www.wbaltv.com/amp/article/stud ... y/43733243

[RickRund]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

[Cataholic]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

[wbtfg]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

[Cataholic]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

Don’t you think the focus should be on getting kids the best education possible, instead of just passing everyone because they have no standards to achieve?

[wbtfg]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

Don’t you think the focus should be on getting kids the best education possible, instead of just passing everyone because they have no standards to achieve?

Definitely.....I'm just not totally sure what is a problem and what is a symptom of the root problem. Seems like school districts are addressing symptoms. That said, I'm not totally sure I know what the root problem is...probably a combination of a lot of things.

[Cataholic]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

Don’t you think the focus should be on getting kids the best education possible, instead of just passing everyone because they have no standards to achieve?

Definitely.....I'm just not totally sure what is a problem and what is a symptom of the root problem. Seems like school districts are addressing symptoms. That said, I'm not totally sure I know what the root problem is...probably a combination of a lot of things.

So removing standards for graduating is addressing a symptom? It would seem to me that they are removing standards so you can’t say a problem exists. This allows everyone to graduate (regardless of proficiency) so no problem exists. It would seem that focus on improving the education would be smart - versus removing standards to give the appearance that everyone is succeeding.

[wbtfg]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

Don’t you think the focus should be on getting kids the best education possible, instead of just passing everyone because they have no standards to achieve?

Definitely.....I'm just not totally sure what is a problem and what is a symptom of the root problem. Seems like school districts are addressing symptoms. That said, I'm not totally sure I know what the root problem is...probably a combination of a lot of things.

So removing standards for graduating is addressing a symptom? It would seem to me that they are removing standards so you can’t say a problem exists. This allows everyone to graduate (regardless of proficiency) so no problem exists. It would seem that focus on improving the education would be smart - versus removing standards to give the appearance that everyone is succeeding.

I think we're having two different conversations. I agree with you on removing the standards. That said, Montana doesn't have a proficiency standard for graduation.

Which is maybe a good thing considering, in Montana 3rd-8th graders tested less than 50% proficient in English and less than 40% proficient in Math.

Montana High schoolers are 53% proficient in English and 30% proficient in Math. Would that mean Montana wouldn't graduate 70% of high school seniors if there was a Math proficiency requirement for graduation?


Note: Apologies for so many edits, my post evolved once I found the Montana OPI data site.

[Cataholic]

And that is just Baltimore.

This story cannot help with proficiency.
https://news.yahoo.com/oregon-governor- ... 8xtVTwCHV3

Instead of addressing the problem and actually educating students, let’s just remove any standards and allow everyone to graduate regardless of grades. This is total madness.

What is the problem that needs to be addressed?

Don’t you think the focus should be on getting kids the best education possible, instead of just passing everyone because they have no standards to achieve?

Definitely.....I'm just not totally sure what is a problem and what is a symptom of the root problem. Seems like school districts are addressing symptoms. That said, I'm not totally sure I know what the root problem is...probably a combination of a lot of things.

So removing standards for graduating is addressing a symptom? It would seem to me that they are removing standards so you can’t say a problem exists. This allows everyone to graduate (regardless of proficiency) so no problem exists. It would seem that focus on improving the education would be smart - versus removing standards to give the appearance that everyone is succeeding.

I think we're having two different conversations. I agree with you on removing the standards. That said, Montana doesn't have a proficiency standard for graduation.

Which is maybe a good thing considering, in Montana 3rd-8th graders tested less than 50% proficient in English and less than 40% proficient in Math.

Montana High schoolers are 53% proficient in English and 30% proficient in Math. Would that mean Montana wouldn't graduate 70% of high school seniors if there was a Math proficiency requirement for graduation?


Note: Apologies for so many edits, my post evolved once I found the Montana OPI data site.

If we agree, why did you comment? Just to argue?

As for Montana’s requirements, it has nothing to do with Oregon removing theirs. The article says Oregon is removing their requirements with the goal to have more minorities graduate. Wouldn’t a better solution be to do a better job educating the kids that are falling behind - regardless of race? If there is a specific reason minorities are behind, then let’s address that specific reason. Maybe it is lack of books, or qualified teachers in higher minority schools, etc…. Let’s address the root problem instead of just removing a standard so politicians can claim a hollow victory.