One month in...

[Desert_Bobcat]

1 month check-in:
Now that we’re about 1-month into the basketball season I think it’d be interesting to see what everyone else has to say about the progress of the Men’s team so far.

FIrst and foremost I think we should address the elephant in the room. This is not the same Bobcat team we’ve seen the last couple years. With that being said, did fans really expect the same results? Sprinkle gutted the program when he left for Utah St. He left late in the coaching carousel period, took his entire coaching staff, as well as his best players and recruits. Am I blaming him for taking a better job? Definitely not, but he definitely left his alma mater in a tough spot.
The school then takes their time and hires Matt Logie (who I think is a fantastic hire), making him the one of the last, if not the last D1 coach hired in the coaching cycle. From there he then had to hire a staff, recruit an entire team from an already depleted transfer portal, and convince current players to stay all in 8 weeks before summer basketball starts. The situation Logie inherited was way worse than Sprinkle, and it still took Danny 3 years to have a 20 win season. Give Coach Logie some time to rebuild the foundation

There are a few things that I’ve taken from this early season so far:
1. Injuries and what could have been…
Losing McMahon again is a killer. He is a difference maker and is a perfect fit for Logie’s system. I’m not sure what is wrong with everyone else but the depth is and will continue to be an issue, specially at the guard position.
2. Shooting the basketball
With exception to the last 2 games, 3-point shooting has been abysmal. The quality of 3-point shots have been good for the most part, shots just aren’t falling. Everyone on this team is a threat beyond the arc (yes, they are all good shooters), it's just a matter of getting more game reps in the system and finding confidence shooting the ball. Hopefully the last 2 games are positive signs to come!
3.Transfers
Gorake and Walker have been the only ones to really make a difference this year. ET3 is still an unknown. The more minutes he gets in the next few weeks will really tell us what type of player he is. Hopefully he can turn into another lockdown guard defender. Nduka seems to be okay? He’s decent on offense but his lack of rebounding and size makes him a liability on defense. Really wish we could see more of John Olmsted, if anything just to be a bigger body down in the post.
4. Brandon Walker
Man he’s good… when he's on the floor… The guy has no motor. It's borderline unacceptable for one of your “stars” to average 19 minutes a game because he’s gassed walking down the court after 3 possessions. He’s good on offense but is lacking as a defender and rebounder, because he’s saving energy to play offense.
5. Rebounding
The Cats have been outrebounded, and outrebounded by a lot, in every game except for the LB State game. That partly has to do with how the team wants to rebound. It looks like the forwards are meant to block out and make room for the guards to sweep in and gather the boards (why Rob is leading the team in rebounds). Walker and Nduka are terrible rebounders. Neither one of them want to box out and that leads to giving up almost 38 rebounds a game and only getting 29 a game. Everyone on this team is undersized and that is highlighted on rebounding. However, rebounding is more about positioning and “want to” than just being bigger than your opponent

Last but not least,
Be optimistic!!!
This team is 5-1 if 2 shots fall at the end of games. Call it bad luck or whatever you want to call it but at the end of the day those shots didn't fall. With that being said, this team is scrappy and will muck up a game to keep it close. I don’t see many games left on the calendar that have the potential to be blowout wins or losses. This team will be in a ton of close games this year so bring your nitroglycerin pills to the Brick because the Cardiac Cats are here to stay! Logie seems to be a really good coach and has the respect of the players. I’m really curious to see the type of players he recruits and tries to bring in for next year. Trap Johnson seems to be like a McMahon 2.0 which could be very fun!

[wapiti]

1 month check-in:
Now that we’re about 1-month into the basketball season I think it’d be interesting to see what everyone else has to say about the progress of the Men’s team so far.

FIrst and foremost I think we should address the elephant in the room. This is not the same Bobcat team we’ve seen the last couple years. With that being said, did fans really expect the same results? Sprinkle gutted the program when he left for Utah St. He left late in the coaching carousel period, took his entire coaching staff, as well as his best players and recruits. Am I blaming him for taking a better job? Definitely not, but he definitely left his alma mater in a tough spot.
The school then takes their time and hires Matt Logie (who I think is a fantastic hire), making him the one of the last, if not the last D1 coach hired in the coaching cycle. From there he then had to hire a staff, recruit an entire team from an already depleted transfer portal, and convince current players to stay all in 8 weeks before summer basketball starts. The situation Logie inherited was way worse than Sprinkle, and it still took Danny 3 years to have a 20 win season. Give Coach Logie some time to rebuild the foundation

There are a few things that I’ve taken from this early season so far:
1. Injuries and what could have been…
Losing McMahon again is a killer. He is a difference maker and is a perfect fit for Logie’s system. I’m not sure what is wrong with everyone else but the depth is and will continue to be an issue, specially at the guard position.
2. Shooting the basketball
With exception to the last 2 games, 3-point shooting has been abysmal. The quality of 3-point shots have been good for the most part, shots just aren’t falling. Everyone on this team is a threat beyond the arc (yes, they are all good shooters), it's just a matter of getting more game reps in the system and finding confidence shooting the ball. Hopefully the last 2 games are positive signs to come!
3.Transfers
Gorake and Walker have been the only ones to really make a difference this year. ET3 is still an unknown. The more minutes he gets in the next few weeks will really tell us what type of player he is. Hopefully he can turn into another lockdown guard defender. Nduka seems to be okay? He’s decent on offense but his lack of rebounding and size makes him a liability on defense. Really wish we could see more of John Olmsted, if anything just to be a bigger body down in the post.
4. Brandon Walker
Man he’s good… when he's on the floor… The guy has no motor. It's borderline unacceptable for one of your “stars” to average 19 minutes a game because he’s gassed walking down the court after 3 possessions. He’s good on offense but is lacking as a defender and rebounder, because he’s saving energy to play offense.
5. Rebounding
The Cats have been outrebounded, and outrebounded by a lot, in every game except for the LB State game. That partly has to do with how the team wants to rebound. It looks like the forwards are meant to block out and make room for the guards to sweep in and gather the boards (why Rob is leading the team in rebounds). Walker and Nduka are terrible rebounders. Neither one of them want to box out and that leads to giving up almost 38 rebounds a game and only getting 29 a game. Everyone on this team is undersized and that is highlighted on rebounding. However, rebounding is more about positioning and “want to” than just being bigger than your opponent

Last but not least,
Be optimistic!!!
This team is 5-1 if 2 shots fall at the end of games. Call it bad luck or whatever you want to call it but at the end of the day those shots didn't fall. With that being said, this team is scrappy and will muck up a game to keep it close. I don’t see many games left on the calendar that have the potential to be blowout wins or losses. This team will be in a ton of close games this year so bring your nitroglycerin pills to the Brick because the Cardiac Cats are here to stay! Logie seems to be a really good coach and has the respect of the players. I’m really curious to see the type of players he recruits and tries to bring in for next year. Trap Johnson seems to be like a McMahon 2.0 which could be very fun!

If a player is not putting the effort in on defense that player should be benched. Good defense will feed the offense.

[technoCat]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

[RickRund]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

Maybe the issue with big men was they left with Sprinkle and that left no time for Logie to recruit and the portal had dried up.

[MSU01]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

Jubrile Belo and Great Osobor obliterated the "MSU can't recruit big men" thing. I think we need to give Logie at least one full recruiting cycle before judging his recruits too harshly. He was very late to the game last year through absolutely no fault of his own.

[technoCat]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

Jubrile Belo and Great Osobor obliterated the "MSU can't recruit big men" thing. I think we need to give Logie at least one full recruiting cycle before judging his recruits too harshly. He was very late to the game last year through absolutely no fault of his own.

No, they didn't. They proved the point. They were undersized guys that had to work extra hard and out talent the much bigger guys they constantly went up against. I think that's partly why Jubrile got so worn down in the last couple of years of his career here. Sam L is just another Sam N that is having to pretend to be a center and is constantly trying to stop guys 3 or more inches taller than him. I'm not saying that we need 6'10" or taller guys to come in and drive our offense but it would really take some pressure off if we could get some that could at least provide 15-20 minutes a game and be a rim protector. I'm not even just talking about Logie and Sprinkle. This has been an "issue" since Durham left. And it seems like we have a revolving door of big guys that come in and ride the pine for whatever reason and barely any make it more than a year or two. I know some are hurt now but from what I've seen, Olmsted is 100% and he's not even seeing the floor.

I know this isn't the 90s and we don't need a "true center" anymore but when I see a team like Long Beach come in and tower over us at every position while also being pretty damn athletic, I am baffled.

[tetoncat]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

We blew leads last 2 years slowing games down last 6 minutes if up more than 8. We just had talent to close it out at end and win. We don't this year.

Why sign Olmstead to sit on bench as Grad transfer. Maybe helps to practice against.

[Desert_Bobcat]

100% agree with TechnoCat and Rick. Both Great and JB were undersized "project" big men who made up for their size with strength, agility, and potential. Recruiting big men at the low-to-mid major level has to be so difficult for coaches. High school kids 6'9"+ are a dime a dozen and if they're worth anything on a basketball court they're being dubbed "projects" by power 5 schools and sign there. But who are we kidding, would you rather play ball at a power 5 school with pedigree of developing big men or play for a school in a confrence like the WAC, BigSky, BigWest, Missouri Valley, etc.? I believe thats why you see so many foreign big men in confrences like the BigSky. Once you get a foot in the door at one of those foreign academy schools like Haslam had at Barking Abbey, or wherever, you keep telling them to send you their best young centers.

As for the meltdowns late in games; Sprinkle had a problem with taking the foot off the gas and going away with what was working late in games too And it looks like Logie got his first lesson in that Sunday afternoon. Bad thing is, Cats had the talent last year to trade buckets or answer a run of their own. It remains to be seen whether this years Cats have the depth and skill set to be able to do that.

[MSU01]

No, they didn't. They proved the point. They were undersized guys that had to work extra hard and out talent the much bigger guys they constantly went up against. I think that's partly why Jubrile got so worn down in the last couple of years of his career here. Sam L is just another Sam N that is having to pretend to be a center and is constantly trying to stop guys 3 or more inches taller than him. I'm not saying that we need 6'10" or taller guys to come in and drive our offense but it would really take some pressure off if we could get some that could at least provide 15-20 minutes a game and be a rim protector. I'm not even just talking about Logie and Sprinkle. This has been an "issue" since Durham left. And it seems like we have a revolving door of big guys that come in and ride the pine for whatever reason and barely any make it more than a year or two. I know some are hurt now but from what I've seen, Olmsted is 100% and he's not even seeing the floor.

I know this isn't the 90s and we don't need a "true center" anymore but when I see a team like Long Beach come in and tower over us at every position while also being pretty damn athletic, I am baffled.

MSU's starting lineup against Long Beach ran 6'7", 6'7", 6'8", 6'6", and 6'0". The Long Beach starting lineup was 6'10", 6'6", 6'5", 6'4", and 5'8" and the guy who came off the bench and scored 26 was 6'3". Hardly towering over us at every position. Osobor is currently averaging 20 and 10 for Utah State and has been their best player so far along with Darius Brown, he was an absolute recruiting steal for MSU who unfortunately left just as he was going to become a superstar.

[technoCat]

No, they didn't. They proved the point. They were undersized guys that had to work extra hard and out talent the much bigger guys they constantly went up against. I think that's partly why Jubrile got so worn down in the last couple of years of his career here. Sam L is just another Sam N that is having to pretend to be a center and is constantly trying to stop guys 3 or more inches taller than him. I'm not saying that we need 6'10" or taller guys to come in and drive our offense but it would really take some pressure off if we could get some that could at least provide 15-20 minutes a game and be a rim protector. I'm not even just talking about Logie and Sprinkle. This has been an "issue" since Durham left. And it seems like we have a revolving door of big guys that come in and ride the pine for whatever reason and barely any make it more than a year or two. I know some are hurt now but from what I've seen, Olmsted is 100% and he's not even seeing the floor.

I know this isn't the 90s and we don't need a "true center" anymore but when I see a team like Long Beach come in and tower over us at every position while also being pretty damn athletic, I am baffled.

MSU's starting lineup against Long Beach ran 6'7", 6'7", 6'8", 6'6", and 6'0". The Long Beach starting lineup was 6'10", 6'6", 6'5", 6'4", and 5'8" and the guy who came off the bench and scored 26 was 6'3". Hardly towering over us at every position. Osobor is currently averaging 20 and 10 for Utah State and has been their best player so far along with Darius Brown, he was an absolute recruiting steal for MSU who unfortunately left just as he was going to become a superstar.

I was probably thinking during the stretch run where I'm pretty sure they had both of their 6'10" guys in and we were effectively playing Chika at center. And Patterson barely counts since he never posts up smaller players and isn't a very good rebounder Fact is though that they had two 6'10" guys that contributed quite a bit and a 6'11" guy that at least saw the floor. That is going to wear down a team topping out at 6'7" more often than not(again I'm not counting Patterson because he doesn't exploit his size mismatches).
Great is a great player(sorry I'll let myself out) but there are multiple big men at USU to take pressure off him so he doesn't always have to carry the load on offense AND defense.

[BelligerentBobcat]

You can absolutely be a good big man in college basketball at 6’8. I hardly consider that undersized anymore. Being 3” taller but not able to move well is a detriment.

Logie is doing a heck of a job considering the talent he has. Honestly, he’s going to need at least 2 years before it can properly be evaluated. Quite frankly, this team isn’t very good but they’re still winning games. That’s a good sign.

[RickRund]

Charles Barkley was closer to 6'4" than 6'6". Yes he was definitely an anomaly...

[TheBigCat]

Why are we talking about Barkley at all or comparing him to anybody on the cats team?

[Cataholic]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

I didn’t watch the game, but didn’t LBS use a press at the end of the game to get back into it? Or do I have the wrong game? You can’t go big and expect to fare very well against a press.

[DMMDCats]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

I didn’t watch the game, but didn’t LBS use a press at the end of the game to get back into it? Or do I have the wrong game? You can’t go big and expect to fare very well against a press.

Yes, full court press trap with 4 mins left. CATS didn’t score a point
those last 4 mins.

[technoCat]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

I didn’t watch the game, but didn’t LBS use a press at the end of the game to get back into it? Or do I have the wrong game? You can’t go big and expect to fare very well against a press.

Yes, full court press trap with 4 mins left. CATS didn’t score a point
those last 4 mins.

But that is what I mentioned in one of my other posts. We stayed small but still weren't all that effective against the press. So we sacrificed on the defensive end and it didn't even pay off on the offensive end. And we stayed that way until they either tied or took the lead, can't quite remember.

[RickRund]

Charles Barkley was closer to 6'4" than 6'6". Yes he was definitely an anomaly...

In the post above mine BB was replying about "big men" and height not being overly necessary. Just adding to his post.

[AFCAT]

A typical .500 season at best for the men. Lucky to get a split versus the gris. I thought the women would be good but losing Deden is a disaster. I believe a slightly better than .500 for the ladies and getting a split with the gris is possible but will be tough now.


Edit; After tonight’s debacle against Rocky, Men will be lucky to win a Big Sky game and will lose both to the gris and it won’t be close.

[Cataholic]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

I didn’t watch the game, but didn’t LBS use a press at the end of the game to get back into it? Or do I have the wrong game? You can’t go big and expect to fare very well against a press.

Yes, full court press trap with 4 mins left. CATS didn’t score a point
those last 4 mins.

But that is what I mentioned in one of my other posts. We stayed small but still weren't all that effective against the press. So we sacrificed on the defensive end and it didn't even pay off on the offensive end. And we stayed that way until they either tied or took the lead, can't quite remember.

Sound like the problem was that we couldn’t break the press, not that he stayed small. Unless our bigs are great ball handlers, it would have been a terrible idea to go big against a press.

[technoCat]

I felt really really good about Logie and this team until the collapse against LBS. It just seemed like we froze up and he did nothing to try and change the tide until it was too late. We stayed small even though it was allowing them to have their way with us on defense and our offense pretty much disappeared. As I've said before, I don't understand why it seems to be 1000% harder for the Cats to recruit big men than anyone else around our level. We are dwarfed by every team we play it seems. Not just this year either. I'm not blaming him for not having the most elite team talent-wise to work with but it sure seems like he is going out of his way to NOT use some of the pieces he does have. Just really worries me that he isn't a very good judge of talent at our level even if he does have a good scheme. I wasn't expecting much out of this season so he definitely gets a pass as long as they are competitive this year but he is fighting against history and the perception that MSU isn't capable of sustaining any kind of success on the hardwood.

I didn’t watch the game, but didn’t LBS use a press at the end of the game to get back into it? Or do I have the wrong game? You can’t go big and expect to fare very well against a press.

Yes, full court press trap with 4 mins left. CATS didn’t score a point
those last 4 mins.

But that is what I mentioned in one of my other posts. We stayed small but still weren't all that effective against the press. So we sacrificed on the defensive end and it didn't even pay off on the offensive end. And we stayed that way until they either tied or took the lead, can't quite remember.

Sound like the problem was that we couldn’t break the press, not that he stayed small. Unless our bigs are great ball handlers, it would have been a terrible idea to go big against a press.

But when you aren't really breaking the press AND you aren't providing any resistance on D, you could at least choose to switch to bigs to try and stop them from scoring. All I know is that he kept the same five guys in from when we were up 10 or 11 to when we were tied or down and THEN he switched in the "bigs". Seemed a bit too little too late. I'm less perturbed by it now that I've had some time to ruminate over it. I think at the time it just reminded me so much of some of our epic collapses under Fish and Huse that the old wounds reopened.