Mel Gibson - anti-semite?

[ChiOCat]

And no, GL, I wasn't saying you were denying. Just adding to your comment.

[SonomaCat]

BAC,

I knew I was opening a can of worms by even typing the word "Catholic" on your hallowed turf.

In the past I will acknowledge that the Catholic Church had horrific impacts on many of the Indigenous Peoples that they came in contact with. But I must have missed the day in confirmation class where we covered how to exterminate all Jews. I thought fanatical Protestants (Nazi Germany NOT the Alabama Council of Southern Baptists) and fanatical Muslims had that market cornered.

From BAC:"As we all know, the Catholic Church pretty much tried to exterminate the Jews for hundreds and hundreds of years, so they have a little bad karma left to live down. "

Are you serious??

BAC, I do appreciate many of your posts. Often they help me look at an issue in a different light. However, it does puzzle me how you like to portray yourself as an intellectual who is so much more open-minded and wordly than the rest of us. Then, you go and type something like this. C'mon man, your better than that.

Are you seriously asking a question, or are you just saying that the idea is so absurd that you don't believe it is true? And if the latter, how much reading have you done on this subject (outside of confirmation class ... which I know first-hand doesn't exactly deep-dive into the more notorious historic acts of the Church)? Trust me, I'm not making stuff up, I just happen to have read a lot on this topic. I do realize that repeating historical events does upset some people, but I would appreciate it if instead of questioning my character when I do speak of history, that people would instead do their own reading on the topic.

Here is a starter piece:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ition.html

http://www.holocaustcenterpgh.net/2-4.html

And I was raised Catholic as well, so I have nothing at all against Catholics ... I have just read a lot about the history of the church itself, which is helpful when trying to understand strange things like Mel Gibson being an anti-Semite because of his faith (his retro-Catholic faith that I spoke of earlier, which is not to be confused with modern mainstream Catholicism).

An acknowledgment that your statements about the market being cornered on anti-Semitiism throughout history that excludes the Catholic Church are wrong would be appreciated. I am a wee bit tired of getting bashed for introducing factual information about certain topics that apparently upsets those who have never bothered to learn anything about it themselves. Instead of accusing me of being a bigot or whatever the insinuation was, it would be much more appropriate to show a little curiosity on the subject and if you aren't familiar with what I am talking about, then ask me for more information. I will always be happy to support my statements.

[grizbeer]

I wonder how much of Mel's anti-semitism is due to his being a Catholic, and how much due to his experience working and living in Hollywood.

I certainly don't believe that the Catholic Church invented anti-semitism, but no doubt they participated in it. My personal feeling is it had nothing to do with the Jews killing Jesus, and everything to do with the Jews being the worlds bankers for most of modern history - the Catholic Church prohibited charging interest until the late 1700's, while (I believe I have this correct, someone correct me if I am wrong) Jewish law allowed interest to be charged to non-Jews. Certainly Hitler's hatred was driven largely by an inferiority complex (along with mental illness, of course) fueled by his personal failings and Germany's humiliating condition after World War I, and certainly while Germany's economy was in tatters some Jewish bankers were doing quite well, which being a minority would have contributed to Hitlers hate towards them, similar to the outrage in Indonesia and Malaysia towards George Soros after the East Asian Currency Crisis - would that hate have been directed towards Soros if he had been Catholic instead of Jewish? Who knows, but it had nothing to do with who killed Jesus.

I suspect Mel's anti-semitism also has less to do with who killed Jesus, and more to do with who has the power to sign checks and green light projects in Hollywood - and when people like Ari Emanuel state that Mel Gibson should be shunned from Hollywood, never to work again, it reinforces the wacko conspiracy theorists who believe that Jews rule the world. Like most things, it comes down to money, with the Catholic church and who killed Jesus as the straw-man.

[SonomaCat]

grizbeer: I totally agree with what you wrote about the historical aspects of the church and anti-semitism ... the "they killed Jesus" thing was more of a marketing tagline than a sincere reason for the Church's motives (power and money were the true motivations). Unfortunately, the marketing tagline did take root in the minds of many, and is still with us today.

As for Mel ... it seems like he learned it from his dad ... long before he came to Hollywood. And his dad's (messed-up and non-mainstream) religion seems to have at least some influence into his anti-semetic views.

[SonomaCat]

And to expand on that last post (and this answers a question from earlier in the thread), the "passion plays" were essentially marketing tools to promote the marketing tagline image of the Jews as the murderers of Christ, and they were cast in an evil light. It was sort of like vaudeville of the day ... the Jews would come on stage and do their "we want him dead, put his blood on our heads and our children's heads" thing (which is in the bible ... although not in all four gospels, which do contradict each other ... not to say that they themselves had any political or human-based influences in their writing or anything), and the crowd would boo them and know that they were bad, bad people.

Mel brought that wonderful play to the big screen ... with what some would allege are the same motivations as the originals.

[Hell's Bells]

1) i forgot where i read this but accountants are more then likley to molest kids then a priest

It's kind of hard to argue with statistics that aren't cited, but I suspect that if you dug into this statistic, you'd probably find that it's one of those cases of a comparison being made based on gross numbers, and not based on percentages. There are a lot more accountants in the world than priests, so of course it's probably true that more accountants molest kids than priests, but I doubt it holds up on a per capita basis.

Just a hunch, of course...and just for the record, I am Catholic, and I'm not bashing priests. It just has the feel of a flawed statistic; that's all.

--GL

i had it saved on my other computer, i will look for it but yes it was based on percentages. to be honest with you both percentiles were rather small, i was just choosing a profession at random to prove a point about just picking on priests/preachers/teachers only on child molestation. yes it is a serious problem but we need not just single out a select few for damnation...

[SonomaCat]

1) i forgot where i read this but accountants are more then likley to molest kids then a priest

It's kind of hard to argue with statistics that aren't cited, but I suspect that if you dug into this statistic, you'd probably find that it's one of those cases of a comparison being made based on gross numbers, and not based on percentages. There are a lot more accountants in the world than priests, so of course it's probably true that more accountants molest kids than priests, but I doubt it holds up on a per capita basis.

Just a hunch, of course...and just for the record, I am Catholic, and I'm not bashing priests. It just has the feel of a flawed statistic; that's all.

--GL

i had it saved on my other computer, i will look for it but yes it was based on percentages. to be honest with you both percentiles were rather small, i was just choosing a profession at random to prove a point about just picking on priests/preachers/teachers only on child molestation. yes it is a serious problem but we need not just single out a select few for damnation...

Interesting choice of words....

[Grizlaw]

i had it saved on my other computer, i will look for it but yes it was based on percentages. to be honest with you both percentiles were rather small, i was just choosing a profession at random to prove a point about just picking on priests/preachers/teachers only on child molestation. yes it is a serious problem but we need not just single out a select few for damnation...

If you can produce a link, I'd be interested in reading it. I'll withhold further judgement until I read the actual study, though.

Nothing personal, but I'm not going to believe this statistic until I actually see the numbers (and the methodology). It just sounds like propoganda. It sounds like one of those statistics that gets thrown out there, such as "you're more likely to be bitten by a German shepherd than by a pit bull," which is probably true, but only because half the country owns German shepherds (most of which don't attack people), and only a select few own pit bulls (many of which have gotten aggressive with people at one time or another).

Like I said -- show me the money.