Floyd Landis

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:53 am

Was Floyd Landis Doping on the T.D.F.

(oops wrong forum!

, Could our fine moderators put this in the correct forum)

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:00 pm

Sorry, I know I'm in the minority but I firmly believe the male human physiologically naturally produces more testosterone the better shape they're in and the more demanding their competition. Women also naturally produce higher levels of testosterone when competing.

BandCat · Post by **BandCat** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:39 pm

Cat Grad wrote: I firmly believe the male human physiologically naturally produces more testosterone the better shape they're in and the more demanding their competition.

That's true, but the problem with that argument is that another test also proved that part of the testosterone in his sample was synthetic.

I don't actually believe one way or the other at this point. On the one hand, the sample had synthetic testosterone in it. He has also changed his story several times (which is not what an innocent person usually does). On the other hand, he was tested a total of 8 times during the Tour de France (4 times before the positive test and 3 times after), and all of the other tests came back negative. From what I understand, after every stage they test the overall leader, so he was tested after every stage the rest of the tour. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'm pretty sure that that kind of stuff stays in your system longer than 24 hours.

There's also the question of the benefit. When it is used by athletes, testosterone is used over time to increase muscle mass and stamina. Would it really have benefitted Landis that much to shoot up a bunch of testosterone the night before one stage?

I think the jury's still out on this one.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:02 pm

The fact that they found synthetic Test seals the deal! The only way he is not guilty is if someone altered his sample. I don't get the need for test though. The water retention (5-10 lbs for someone his size) would really slow him down and he probably did not eat enough to get much muscle gains. If he did it just for his joints then he picked the wrong stuff. A good dose of HGH would have helped the joints, kept the fat down and created a lot of cell regeneration.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:08 pm

gtapp wrote:The fact that they found synthetic Test seals the deal! The only way he is not guilty is if someone altered his sample. I don't get the need for test though. The water retention (5-10 lbs for someone his size) would really slow him down and he probably did not eat enough to get much muscle gains. If he did it just for his joints then he picked the wrong stuff. A good dose of HGH would have helped the joints, kept the fat down and created a lot of cell regeneration.

The synthetics is what convinced me, but the older I get the less I trust anything to do with the French. JMHO

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:56 pm

GOKATS wrote:
The synthetics is what convinced me, but the older I get the less I trust anything to do with the French. JMHO

Dan Patrick was hinting today that maybe since the French couldn't ever get Lance that they are now settling for Landis. A huge conspiracy theory, but an interesting thought.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:15 pm

anacondagriz wrote:
GOKATS wrote:
The synthetics is what convinced me, but the older I get the less I trust anything to do with the French. JMHO
Dan Patrick was hinting today that maybe since the French couldn't ever get Lance that they are now settling for Landis. A huge conspiracy theory, but an interesting thought.

I'm on board with the whole conspiracy thing. I don't doubt for a second they "doped" his sample. Damn frogs....

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:08 am

I firmly believe that anybody at any time can make a bad decision that can destroy the rest of his/her life. That being said, Landis is not stupid and would know better than anybody, having ridden on Discovery Channel while Lance was under the spotlight, and with Phonak that suspended Tyler Hamilton for blood infusions, that the spotlight is relentless against "team leaders". To "knowingly" take a shot of testosterone hoping to get back into the race that he led for over 100 miles through the mountains is ludacris. Landis would know that the moment he stepped off the bike he'd pee in the bottle. All stage winners are tested. Lance knew it and was never tested positive in all his years. All that the Frence press could do is find people who said he did dope. hmmmm.
Floyd Landis if he is anything, is a man who is confused by the results. His answers are not consistent with a liar that is caught with his hand in the jar. They are consistent with a man confused. I am inclined to go with Dan Patrick's theory more than I am inclined to believe that Landis was stupid on one day of his life. I might be wrong however.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:14 am

The thing that still gets me about the whole thing is that Landis was also tested within a day or two before and after the day on which he tested positive. If you give yourself a big ol' dose of synthetic testosterone, shouldn't it hang around for more than one day?

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:58 am

I've gone back and forth on this one, it is a perplexing situation. After going through everything, I just don't think he did it. Maybe that is just what I want to believe, but the situation just does not make sense. I think everyone is a little skeptical of what any athlete says about drugs these days, which is why I think Floyd is getting a hard time in the press - and most of the time, I am on the side that thinks anyone who fails a drug test and says they "have not knowingly ever taken a banned substance" is guilty as hell. In Landis' case, however, I believe him, if only for the simple fact that taking testosterone for one day would have been the most idiotic thing a man could do in his position, and would not have helped him one bit. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out, but I feel badly for him right now. He seems like a great guy, and his story was so inspirational - I guess at the very least, he'll make millions off of his book regardless!

If there are any other cycling enthusiasts out there, good news from our boy from Butte Levi Leipheimer - he is in second place in the Tour of Germany right now after a disappointing finish in the Tour de France. Big time trial coming up for him, hope he does well (he won the race last year).

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:11 pm

BozoneCat wrote:I've gone back and forth on this one, it is a perplexing situation. After going through everything, I just don't think he did it. Maybe that is just what I want to believe, but the situation just does not make sense. I think everyone is a little skeptical of what any athlete says about drugs these days, which is why I think Floyd is getting a hard time in the press - and most of the time, I am on the side that thinks anyone who fails a drug test and says they "have not knowingly ever taken a banned substance" is guilty as hell. In Landis' case, however, I believe him, if only for the simple fact that taking testosterone for one day would have been the most idiotic thing a man could do in his position, and would not have helped him one bit. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out, but I feel badly for him right now. He seems like a great guy, and his story was so inspirational - I guess at the very least, he'll make millions off of his book regardless!

If there are any other cycling enthusiasts out there, good news from our boy from Butte Levi Leipheimer - he is in second place in the Tour of Germany right now after a disappointing finish in the Tour de France. Big time trial coming up for him, hope he does well (he won the race last year).

I like Levi and hope he hammers the time trial. His specialty is not the TT but the mountains so I anticipate that he will not overtake the leader. That being said, "ride hard Levi".