MSU Womens B-Ball Final 5 Games

[Bocephus]

They’ve scored 4 points since 4 minute left in 3rd. Plenty of opportunities to close thing out.

[kcatz]

I am not sure either team has done anything to win this thing

[tetoncat]

We are long and tall, but we have no shooters...from anywhere from the 3 point line to the paint. Portland just stayed in the zone and we played keep away for 30 seconds. If they got a pass into the lane about 10 feet away...they didn't even try to turn and shoot...they just passed it out and continued the perimeter keep away. Izzy had 3-3 pointers early, but disappeared after that. Mara is deadly from 10-12 feet, but I only remember her shooting one...and making it!

I'm largely in agreement. This team has no real 3 pt threat which allows defenses to sag and clog the key. Being young and inexperienced exacerbates the lack of shooting confidence when things start to go downhill.

But are we really that “young and inexperienced?” Three of our starters are seniors—Taylor, KJ, and Madison. Dyksta now has almost two seasons under her belt. The bottom line is, our recruiting has slipped. Look at the shooters UM has brought in and they were on full display in Missoula. If you really want to see a “young and inexperienced “ team (which is another way of saying recruiting has slipped) wait until next year. Who is going to provide the offensive firepower beyond Dykstra and Deden? I don’t care how hard you play defense you HAVE to have shooters who can score.

I mostly agree with you about what good is a defense if you don’t have shooters on the offense side of things. Regarding next season, again, I don’t think we know yet if Limardo or Janssen are returning for their covid year. Regardless, their shooting has always been streaky and seems to have fallen off this season. So yes, this team sorely needs some outside shooters.

As to your comment about the recruiting slipping off, I thought I’d look at the last six years of the recruiting classes and grade them IMHO:

2019-2020
Grade A: Bad Bear, MadJackHall, Stumne, White. No brainer, this class produced 3 very good players.
2020-2021
Grade B: Beattie, Deden, Janssen, Limardo, Ranson, Stensgard. For this class, 2 transferred out, one “retired”, leaving Deden, Janssen & Limardo still on today’s roster.
2021-2022
Grade D: Ardern, Hein, Hughes. If Hein cannot make a come back from her ongoing injury, this class gets an F as the other two are long gone.
2022-2023
Grade C: (tentative) Beasley, Dykstra, Olson, Philip. Dykstra is the gem of this class. Not sure if Olson will ever play again with her injury, Philip is a to be determined, & we all know the Beasley story.
2023-2024
Grade Incomplete: Berry, Brumfield, Boulanger, Bunyan, Egan, Johnson, Picton. Bunyan, Johnson, & Picton are looking good. The remaining players in this class, not so much at this point of their first year. I’d give this class a premature C but with alot of upside potential.
2024-2025
Grade Incomplete: Chirrick, Erickson, Harris. Time will tell, but Chirrick & Harris could be exceptional.

In conclusion, I would mostly agree with you that recruiting has slipped, although the jury is certainly still out on the current freshman. The 2021-2022 & 2022-2023 classes has only produced one player (still on the roster) who could definitely start on any Big Sky team.

If recruit transfers and starts on another team shouldn't that impact your grade. If Beasley and Beattie stayed with our youth as backup we wouldn't be having same discussions.

[arvcat2]

We are long and tall, but we have no shooters...from anywhere from the 3 point line to the paint. Portland just stayed in the zone and we played keep away for 30 seconds. If they got a pass into the lane about 10 feet away...they didn't even try to turn and shoot...they just passed it out and continued the perimeter keep away. Izzy had 3-3 pointers early, but disappeared after that. Mara is deadly from 10-12 feet, but I only remember her shooting one...and making it!

I'm largely in agreement. This team has no real 3 pt threat which allows defenses to sag and clog the key. Being young and inexperienced exacerbates the lack of shooting confidence when things start to go downhill.

But are we really that “young and inexperienced?” Three of our starters are seniors—Taylor, KJ, and Madison. Dyksta now has almost two seasons under her belt. The bottom line is, our recruiting has slipped. Look at the shooters UM has brought in and they were on full display in Missoula. If you really want to see a “young and inexperienced “ team (which is another way of saying recruiting has slipped) wait until next year. Who is going to provide the offensive firepower beyond Dykstra and Deden? I don’t care how hard you play defense you HAVE to have shooters who can score.

I mostly agree with you about what good is a defense if you don’t have shooters on the offense side of things. Regarding next season, again, I don’t think we know yet if Limardo or Janssen are returning for their covid year. Regardless, their shooting has always been streaky and seems to have fallen off this season. So yes, this team sorely needs some outside shooters.

As to your comment about the recruiting slipping off, I thought I’d look at the last six years of the recruiting classes and grade them IMHO:

2019-2020
Grade A: Bad Bear, MadJackHall, Stumne, White. No brainer, this class produced 3 very good players.
2020-2021
Grade B: Beattie, Deden, Janssen, Limardo, Ranson, Stensgard. For this class, 2 transferred out, one “retired”, leaving Deden, Janssen & Limardo still on today’s roster.
2021-2022
Grade D: Ardern, Hein, Hughes. If Hein cannot make a come back from her ongoing injury, this class gets an F as the other two are long gone.
2022-2023
Grade C: (tentative) Beasley, Dykstra, Olson, Philip. Dykstra is the gem of this class. Not sure if Olson will ever play again with her injury, Philip is a to be determined, & we all know the Beasley story.
2023-2024
Grade Incomplete: Berry, Brumfield, Boulanger, Bunyan, Egan, Johnson, Picton. Bunyan, Johnson, & Picton are looking good. The remaining players in this class, not so much at this point of their first year. I’d give this class a premature C but with alot of upside potential.
2024-2025
Grade Incomplete: Chirrick, Erickson, Harris. Time will tell, but Chirrick & Harris could be exceptional.

In conclusion, I would mostly agree with you that recruiting has slipped, although the jury is certainly still out on the current freshman. The 2021-2022 & 2022-2023 classes has only produced one player (still on the roster) who could definitely start on any Big Sky team.

If recruit transfers and starts on another team shouldn't that impact your grade. If Beasley and Beattie stayed with our youth as backup we wouldn't be having same discussions.

Your correct. If Beasley & Beattie stayed we might not be having these discussions. But they didn’t stay and I obviously base my grades with player retention in mind and how the players perform as Bobcats, not Lumberjacks or whomever.

[tetoncat]

We are long and tall, but we have no shooters...from anywhere from the 3 point line to the paint. Portland just stayed in the zone and we played keep away for 30 seconds. If they got a pass into the lane about 10 feet away...they didn't even try to turn and shoot...they just passed it out and continued the perimeter keep away. Izzy had 3-3 pointers early, but disappeared after that. Mara is deadly from 10-12 feet, but I only remember her shooting one...and making it!

I'm largely in agreement. This team has no real 3 pt threat which allows defenses to sag and clog the key. Being young and inexperienced exacerbates the lack of shooting confidence when things start to go downhill.

But are we really that “young and inexperienced?” Three of our starters are seniors—Taylor, KJ, and Madison. Dyksta now has almost two seasons under her belt. The bottom line is, our recruiting has slipped. Look at the shooters UM has brought in and they were on full display in Missoula. If you really want to see a “young and inexperienced “ team (which is another way of saying recruiting has slipped) wait until next year. Who is going to provide the offensive firepower beyond Dykstra and Deden? I don’t care how hard you play defense you HAVE to have shooters who can score.

I mostly agree with you about what good is a defense if you don’t have shooters on the offense side of things. Regarding next season, again, I don’t think we know yet if Limardo or Janssen are returning for their covid year. Regardless, their shooting has always been streaky and seems to have fallen off this season. So yes, this team sorely needs some outside shooters.

As to your comment about the recruiting slipping off, I thought I’d look at the last six years of the recruiting classes and grade them IMHO:

2019-2020
Grade A: Bad Bear, MadJackHall, Stumne, White. No brainer, this class produced 3 very good players.
2020-2021
Grade B: Beattie, Deden, Janssen, Limardo, Ranson, Stensgard. For this class, 2 transferred out, one “retired”, leaving Deden, Janssen & Limardo still on today’s roster.
2021-2022
Grade D: Ardern, Hein, Hughes. If Hein cannot make a come back from her ongoing injury, this class gets an F as the other two are long gone.
2022-2023
Grade C: (tentative) Beasley, Dykstra, Olson, Philip. Dykstra is the gem of this class. Not sure if Olson will ever play again with her injury, Philip is a to be determined, & we all know the Beasley story.
2023-2024
Grade Incomplete: Berry, Brumfield, Boulanger, Bunyan, Egan, Johnson, Picton. Bunyan, Johnson, & Picton are looking good. The remaining players in this class, not so much at this point of their first year. I’d give this class a premature C but with alot of upside potential.
2024-2025
Grade Incomplete: Chirrick, Erickson, Harris. Time will tell, but Chirrick & Harris could be exceptional.

In conclusion, I would mostly agree with you that recruiting has slipped, although the jury is certainly still out on the current freshman. The 2021-2022 & 2022-2023 classes has only produced one player (still on the roster) who could definitely start on any Big Sky team.

If recruit transfers and starts on another team shouldn't that impact your grade. If Beasley and Beattie stayed with our youth as backup we wouldn't be having same discussions.

Your correct. If Beasley & Beattie stayed we might not be having these discussions. But they didn’t stay and I obviously base my grades with player retention in mind and how the players perform as Bobcats, not Lumberjacks or whomever.

That makes sense but you were responding to aucat who said recruiting slipped. I don't think transfers or injuries show poor recruiting if those players perform. Coaches identified good talent.

[SACCAT]

With 3 games left ( Home VS #7 Idaho #1 EWU and Away VS #8 Weber) MSU Women's team sits at 4th place (if tourney started today). They COULD finish as high as #3 (If craziness happens in Missoula).

[MSU01]

With 3 games left ( Home VS #7 Idaho #1 EWU and Away VS #8 Weber) MSU Women's team sits at 4th place (if tourney started today). They COULD finish as high as #3 (If craziness happens in Missoula).

Cats have an easier schedule than the Griz with Weber as their Monday opponent instead of ISU, but ultimately I think a 2-game lead will be too much for MSU to overcome. I think the ideal result for MSU would be to finish in the 4/5 game and have EWU as #1. MSU has already beaten EWU this year and this would also put them on the opposite side of the bracket from NAU, who have definitely had the Bobcats' number the last two years.

[SACCAT]

With 3 games left ( Home VS #7 Idaho #1 EWU and Away VS #8 Weber) MSU Women's team sits at 4th place (if tourney started today). They COULD finish as high as #3 (If craziness happens in Missoula).

Cats have an easier schedule than the Griz with Weber as their Monday opponent instead of ISU, but ultimately I think a 2-game lead will be too much for MSU to overcome. I think the ideal result for MSU would be to finish in the 4/5 game and have EWU as #1. MSU has already beaten EWU this year and this would also put them on the opposite side of the bracket from NAU, who have definitely had the Bobcats' number the last two years.

I don't think they will get to #3, but there is a chance ( What's all that 1 in a million talk).

[Bobcat4Ever]

Observations from Sac State, end of first half.
-We are shooting better from 20 feet than 2 feet.
-Sac is overplaying on passes at the top and wing, but nobody is back cutting.
-Leaving too many open 3s.
-We are in this on pure hustle.
-The Sac State announcer is very good.

I finally got a chance to watch both games. I was pleased to see that the thing I had been harping on — the offense all crowding into a small area — had really changed. In both games their spacing was excellent and that lead to better perimeter ball movement and reversals. However, it was like they weren’t prepared to work off that. @nevadacat, you nailed it — no back-cutting. That was my complaint in the Sac St. game to my long-suffering wife. Players entering the paint left one or two defensive players between them and the basket. There was some really ugly basketball in trying to break through those defenders and get to the basket.

At the beginning of the year I thought there was a lot of potential that would develop during the year. I’m still pretty hopeful, but now Ella’s injury is hurting the team. The announcer for Sac St. (had done his homework) said that Limardo was still sore from the gris attack. It’s obvious she hasn’t been herself, but she seemed to be moving better. At least well enough to get her face scratched by a Hornet. Neither men nor women can seem to play Sacramento without intentional fouls and technicals and long reviews.