Discussing the Issues Removed

[grizzh8r]

What if the biological women want to compete against biological men?

Should they start a new classification just for biological men that are taking sufficient amounts of female hormones?

You just can't help yourself, can you Tom? To put it bluntly - because "DEI progressives" seem to lack brain cells with any shred of logic in them - no. Because they'd seldom win a match/game/meet. There's nothing to be gained from it because the vast majority of biological females would be at a fundamental genetic disadvantage vs. biological males. The average male mammal is ALWAYS bigger, faster, and stronger than the female version of that mammal. At least that's what I learned in my non-woke biology classes.

In my opinion, one of the reasons males are now masquerading as females in sports is a particularly bad byproduct of the "participation trophy", weak-minded generation that was created by ensuring Little Johnny wasn't traumatized by losing a game. Millions of kids nowadays grow up now not knowing what it's like to lose and always "winning" as adolescents. This effects boys in particular, as males are genetically wired and driven by understanding winning and losing.

So when Little Johnny gets into his teenage years, can't hack it and isn't good enough to beat the best of his male peers - and doesn't like the taste of losing - one way to instantly increase the odds of winning is to "become" Little Jane and beat up on the girls. Sad that the woke DEI agenda has normalized such disgraceful behavior.

[Cataholic]

Back when Bobcatnation had a forum for discussing the issues, stuff like this was setting that forum on fire. Because the issue was allowed to burn and grow instead of being denigrated and mocked in places like Bobcatnation (this isn't the only site that chickened out of the fight) this is today's update.

This story is getting a lot of action on far right social media. Maybe deservedly so....what are the facts?

From what I can gather, Imane Khelif from Algeria won the bout after Angela Carini of Italy tapped out 46 seconds into the first round.

Khelif has been competing in women's boxing for about 6 years. Has had 14 matches with a 9-5 record.

Khelif competed in the Tokyo Olympics without any controversy, losing to a fighter from ireland in the quarterfinals.

In 2023, Khelif was disqualified from the 2023 world championship of boxing for having elevated levels of testosterone. (Is that because s/he was born a male? Was s/he taking testosterone PED's? Does Khelif naturally produce more testosterone?)

Khelif won a silver medal at the 2022 world championships without any controversy.

The IBA (who disqualified Khelif) is notoriously corrupt.

IBA President UMAR Kremlin said DNA test result of Khelif "proved they had XY chromosomes". Khelif tried to appeal the findings, but later withdrew it.

Is there further evidence/facts out there?

Is this what you mean by far right media?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/01/spor ... s-olympics

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireS ... -112476945

https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news ... er-debate/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/worl ... helif.html

It is interesting how every controversial subject to you is blamed on the far right media. (All of these examples above are left leaning media).

Not sure why you want to make this about me. I first saw the story on twitter from Clay Travis, MTG and Lauren Boebert (who is doing a gofundme for the itilian boxer for some reason).

Any commentary on the subject at hand or do you want to just keep talking about me? Personally id rather focus on the issue, but im cool either way.

You came out of the gates with the far right media comment. Just wanted to point out that all sides have covered this topic. But it is interesting how you specifically pointed out the far right. Is that a common theme with you?

As for the specific topic, I don’t know that this person is transgender, but there are questions around her/him’s biological identity. That makes participation in any sport with gender a question. Not Khelif’s fault, or the sports admins fault, but it is a biological question.

If Khelif is not transgender but rather a biological mystery, Khelif should sue any media or politician that called her a transgender. She has definitely been harmed by such categorizations.

Lots of people are big mad about “a man competing in a woman’s sport“ when that doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance. You seem to have a more measured approach, and I appreciate that.

I’d still be interested in hearing @Rich K response to further facts on this topic.

Lots of people are big mad that some people don't want boys/men competing in girls/womens sports even if that may not be the case in this instance. When they open their response to a story by dishonestly framing the conversation (far-right media) it's hard to take them seriously.

I’ll edit that out of my initial response to hopefully make it easier to focus on the topic at hand.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts about biological males at birth getting to compete against women?

That’s a good question. And there are a lot of “what if” scenarios, but generally I’m against it.

That said, I don’t think that’s the case in this specific topic @Rich K posted about.

In this case, I’m completely on board with the Algerian boxer competing.

You?

No. It is my understanding that Khelif had an XY chromosome which is what biological men have. This means Khelif may have the physical attributes of a man - such as greater muscle mass and strength. This is why Khelif was banned from the world championships. Unfortunate for Khelif, but understandable why women with XX chromosomes would be upset with her competing.

[Cataholic]

What if the biological women want to compete against biological men?

Should they start a new classification just for biological men that are taking sufficient amounts of female hormones?

You just can't help yourself, can you Tom? To put it bluntly - because "DEI progressives" seem to lack brain cells with any shred of logic in them - no. Because they'd seldom win a match/game/meet. There's nothing to be gained from it because the vast majority of biological females would be at a fundamental genetic disadvantage vs. biological males. The average male mammal is ALWAYS bigger, faster, and stronger than the female version of that mammal. At least that's what I learned in my non-woke biology classes.

In my opinion, one of the reasons males are now masquerading as females in sports is a particularly bad byproduct of the "participation trophy", weak-minded generation that was created by ensuring Little Johnny wasn't traumatized by losing a game. Millions of kids nowadays grow up now not knowing what it's like to lose and always "winning" as adolescents. This effects boys in particular, as males are genetically wired and driven by understanding winning and losing.

So when Little Johnny gets into his teenage years, can't hack it and isn't good enough to beat the best of his male peers - and doesn't like the taste of losing - one way to instantly increase the odds of winning is to "become" Little Jane and beat up on the girls. Sad that the woke DEI agenda has normalized such disgraceful behavior.

What is mind boggling to me is that the woke left is supposed to be a key supporter of women’s rights. As part of this agenda, they are supposed to protect women’s sports. But when Little Johnny wants to play against the women, they back Little Johnny? It makes no sense. Common sense says Little Johnny should play in his own division of similar ability competitors.

[wbtfg]

This story is getting a lot of action on far right social media. Maybe deservedly so....what are the facts?

From what I can gather, Imane Khelif from Algeria won the bout after Angela Carini of Italy tapped out 46 seconds into the first round.

Khelif has been competing in women's boxing for about 6 years. Has had 14 matches with a 9-5 record.

Khelif competed in the Tokyo Olympics without any controversy, losing to a fighter from ireland in the quarterfinals.

In 2023, Khelif was disqualified from the 2023 world championship of boxing for having elevated levels of testosterone. (Is that because s/he was born a male? Was s/he taking testosterone PED's? Does Khelif naturally produce more testosterone?)

Khelif won a silver medal at the 2022 world championships without any controversy.

The IBA (who disqualified Khelif) is notoriously corrupt.

IBA President UMAR Kremlin said DNA test result of Khelif "proved they had XY chromosomes". Khelif tried to appeal the findings, but later withdrew it.

Is there further evidence/facts out there?

Is this what you mean by far right media?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/01/spor ... s-olympics

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireS ... -112476945

https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news ... er-debate/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/worl ... helif.html

It is interesting how every controversial subject to you is blamed on the far right media. (All of these examples above are left leaning media).

Not sure why you want to make this about me. I first saw the story on twitter from Clay Travis, MTG and Lauren Boebert (who is doing a gofundme for the itilian boxer for some reason).

Any commentary on the subject at hand or do you want to just keep talking about me? Personally id rather focus on the issue, but im cool either way.

You came out of the gates with the far right media comment. Just wanted to point out that all sides have covered this topic. But it is interesting how you specifically pointed out the far right. Is that a common theme with you?

As for the specific topic, I don’t know that this person is transgender, but there are questions around her/him’s biological identity. That makes participation in any sport with gender a question. Not Khelif’s fault, or the sports admins fault, but it is a biological question.

If Khelif is not transgender but rather a biological mystery, Khelif should sue any media or politician that called her a transgender. She has definitely been harmed by such categorizations.

Lots of people are big mad about “a man competing in a woman’s sport“ when that doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance. You seem to have a more measured approach, and I appreciate that.

I’d still be interested in hearing @Rich K response to further facts on this topic.

Lots of people are big mad that some people don't want boys/men competing in girls/womens sports even if that may not be the case in this instance. When they open their response to a story by dishonestly framing the conversation (far-right media) it's hard to take them seriously.

I’ll edit that out of my initial response to hopefully make it easier to focus on the topic at hand.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts about biological males at birth getting to compete against women?

That’s a good question. And there are a lot of “what if” scenarios, but generally I’m against it.

That said, I don’t think that’s the case in this specific topic @Rich K posted about.

In this case, I’m completely on board with the Algerian boxer competing.

You?

No. It is my understanding that Khelif had an XY chromosome which is what biological men have. This means Khelif may have the physical attributes of a man - such as greater muscle mass and strength. This is why Khelif was banned from the world championships. Unfortunate for Khelif, but understandable why women with XX chromosomes would be upset with her competing.

It sounds like Khelif was born with female genitalia and has lived as a female her entire life. It also sounds like she may have some xy chromosomes in addition to xx chromosomes.

Should we require girls/women to undergo chromosome testing before competing? Is this for all levels and all sports?

Are there other genetic conditions that are tested for and make someone ineligible for competition?

[wbtfg]

What if the biological women want to compete against biological men?

Should they start a new classification just for biological men that are taking sufficient amounts of female hormones?

You just can't help yourself, can you Tom? To put it bluntly - because "DEI progressives" seem to lack brain cells with any shred of logic in them - no. Because they'd seldom win a match/game/meet. There's nothing to be gained from it because the vast majority of biological females would be at a fundamental genetic disadvantage vs. biological males. The average male mammal is ALWAYS bigger, faster, and stronger than the female version of that mammal. At least that's what I learned in my non-woke biology classes.

In my opinion, one of the reasons males are now masquerading as females in sports is a particularly bad byproduct of the "participation trophy", weak-minded generation that was created by ensuring Little Johnny wasn't traumatized by losing a game. Millions of kids nowadays grow up now not knowing what it's like to lose and always "winning" as adolescents. This effects boys in particular, as males are genetically wired and driven by understanding winning and losing.

So when Little Johnny gets into his teenage years, can't hack it and isn't good enough to beat the best of his male peers - and doesn't like the taste of losing - one way to instantly increase the odds of winning is to "become" Little Jane and beat up on the girls. Sad that the woke DEI agenda has normalized such disgraceful behavior.

Khelif was born as a female with female genitalia and raised as female in an extremely conservative Muslim country where it’s illegal to be trans. Seems like she should compete as a female, no?

[RickRund]

Just stumbled across this tweet/ticktock that summarizes a lot of what I had posted above.

@Rich K and @RickRund, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the video.

I am not a doctor, nor am I an expert on this issue. I am just going on the premise that this boxer has xy chromosomes and an elevated t level. The Italian fighter said she has never been hit so hard. Also, looking at the Algerian fighter, he/she does not look like a dudette (just sayin')... Hopefully no one gets seriously injured.

xx=female
xy=male

Does having xy chromosomes allow for a greater strength capacity? Take a blood test and go with science.

[wbtfg]

Just stumbled across this tweet/ticktock that summarizes a lot of what I had posted above.

@Rich K and @RickRund, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the video.

I am not a doctor, nor am I an expert on this issue. I am just going on the premise that this boxer has xy chromosomes and an elevated t level. The Italian fighter said she has never been hit so hard. Also, looking at the Algerian fighter, he/she does not look like a dudette (just sayin')... Hopefully no one gets seriously injured.

xx=female
xy=male

Does having xy chromosomes allow for a greater strength capacity? Take a blood test and go with science.

So all women should have to take chomomosome tests in order to be allowed to compete?

If a person is born with female genitalia and is raised as a female, but perhaps has some XY chromosomes, which locker room should they use?

[RickRund]

Do all athletes need to have a blood test to see if they are doping? At that time they can check their DNA.

I remember when they would call this condition androgynous.

Depends on whether they have an inny or an outy I guess.

[coloradocat]

What if the biological women want to compete against biological men?

Should they start a new classification just for biological men that are taking sufficient amounts of female hormones?

Biological women are already allowed to compete against biological men. The two classifications available to athletes are "sport x" (open to all but commonly labeled as "men's sport x" where there is a female equivalent) and "girl's/women's sport x" (formerly only open to girls/women). Nothing is stopping a woman from playing football or joining a men's basketball team, or entering a boxing event, except being able to meet the required level of competition. The female-only category was created to provide opportunities for them because less than 1 in 1,000 would ever make an "open" team. I can't believe this still has to be explained to people.

If people want to alter their bodies, inside and/or out, and create a new classification of competition they can go for it. But that's not what they want. They want everyone to play along and call them "normal" and consider it fair that they compete is a classification they don't belong in.

[wbtfg]

Do all athletes need to have a blood test to see if they are doping? At that time they can check their DNA.

I remember when they would call this condition androgynous.

Depends on whether they have an inny or an outy I guess.

I wouldn’t really compare to doping as that is taking a foreign substance to gain a competitive advantage.

Any other genetic conditions women (or men) should be checked for?

I know Michael Phelps had some genetic anomalies that made him a perfect swimmer.

Elite distance runners genetically process oxygen more efficiently than the average person.

I wouldn’t be shocked if some of the all time great women’s basketball players have similar genetic traits to the boxer.

[Cataholic]

Is this what you mean by far right media?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/01/spor ... s-olympics

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/wireS ... -112476945

https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news ... er-debate/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/worl ... helif.html

It is interesting how every controversial subject to you is blamed on the far right media. (All of these examples above are left leaning media).

Not sure why you want to make this about me. I first saw the story on twitter from Clay Travis, MTG and Lauren Boebert (who is doing a gofundme for the itilian boxer for some reason).

Any commentary on the subject at hand or do you want to just keep talking about me? Personally id rather focus on the issue, but im cool either way.

You came out of the gates with the far right media comment. Just wanted to point out that all sides have covered this topic. But it is interesting how you specifically pointed out the far right. Is that a common theme with you?

As for the specific topic, I don’t know that this person is transgender, but there are questions around her/him’s biological identity. That makes participation in any sport with gender a question. Not Khelif’s fault, or the sports admins fault, but it is a biological question.

If Khelif is not transgender but rather a biological mystery, Khelif should sue any media or politician that called her a transgender. She has definitely been harmed by such categorizations.

Lots of people are big mad about “a man competing in a woman’s sport“ when that doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance. You seem to have a more measured approach, and I appreciate that.

I’d still be interested in hearing @Rich K response to further facts on this topic.

Lots of people are big mad that some people don't want boys/men competing in girls/womens sports even if that may not be the case in this instance. When they open their response to a story by dishonestly framing the conversation (far-right media) it's hard to take them seriously.

I’ll edit that out of my initial response to hopefully make it easier to focus on the topic at hand.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts about biological males at birth getting to compete against women?

That’s a good question. And there are a lot of “what if” scenarios, but generally I’m against it.

That said, I don’t think that’s the case in this specific topic @Rich K posted about.

In this case, I’m completely on board with the Algerian boxer competing.

You?

No. It is my understanding that Khelif had an XY chromosome which is what biological men have. This means Khelif may have the physical attributes of a man - such as greater muscle mass and strength. This is why Khelif was banned from the world championships. Unfortunate for Khelif, but understandable why women with XX chromosomes would be upset with her competing.

It sounds like Khelif was born with female genitalia and has lived as a female her entire life. It also sounds like she may have some xy chromosomes in addition to xx chromosomes.

Should we require girls/women to undergo chromosome testing before competing? Is this for all levels and all sports?

Are there other genetic conditions that are tested for and make someone ineligible for competition?

If you want to have a level playing field for the competitors in certain sports, the answer is yes - testing should be required. Boxing and weightlifting are certainly two of those sports. Probably not as important in table tennis or golf. I would not be surprised to see some WNBA players have some XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone levels. While they might have some physical advantages, they don’t automatically become Michael Jordan. But in boxing, could the genetic chromosome makeup give her Mike Tyson power, the answer is probably yes.

[coloradocat]

Let's just go full fifth wave feminism and overturn the Jenny Crow laws. No more separate but equal. Everyone plays together. Everybody wants to be treated as equals, right?

[wbtfg]

Not sure why you want to make this about me. I first saw the story on twitter from Clay Travis, MTG and Lauren Boebert (who is doing a gofundme for the itilian boxer for some reason).

Any commentary on the subject at hand or do you want to just keep talking about me? Personally id rather focus on the issue, but im cool either way.

You came out of the gates with the far right media comment. Just wanted to point out that all sides have covered this topic. But it is interesting how you specifically pointed out the far right. Is that a common theme with you?

As for the specific topic, I don’t know that this person is transgender, but there are questions around her/him’s biological identity. That makes participation in any sport with gender a question. Not Khelif’s fault, or the sports admins fault, but it is a biological question.

If Khelif is not transgender but rather a biological mystery, Khelif should sue any media or politician that called her a transgender. She has definitely been harmed by such categorizations.

Lots of people are big mad about “a man competing in a woman’s sport“ when that doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance. You seem to have a more measured approach, and I appreciate that.

I’d still be interested in hearing @Rich K response to further facts on this topic.

Lots of people are big mad that some people don't want boys/men competing in girls/womens sports even if that may not be the case in this instance. When they open their response to a story by dishonestly framing the conversation (far-right media) it's hard to take them seriously.

I’ll edit that out of my initial response to hopefully make it easier to focus on the topic at hand.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts about biological males at birth getting to compete against women?

That’s a good question. And there are a lot of “what if” scenarios, but generally I’m against it.

That said, I don’t think that’s the case in this specific topic @Rich K posted about.

In this case, I’m completely on board with the Algerian boxer competing.

You?

No. It is my understanding that Khelif had an XY chromosome which is what biological men have. This means Khelif may have the physical attributes of a man - such as greater muscle mass and strength. This is why Khelif was banned from the world championships. Unfortunate for Khelif, but understandable why women with XX chromosomes would be upset with her competing.

It sounds like Khelif was born with female genitalia and has lived as a female her entire life. It also sounds like she may have some xy chromosomes in addition to xx chromosomes.

Should we require girls/women to undergo chromosome testing before competing? Is this for all levels and all sports?

Are there other genetic conditions that are tested for and make someone ineligible for competition?

If you want to have a level playing field for the competitors in certain sports, the answer is yes - testing should be required. Boxing and weightlifting are certainly two of those sports. Probably not as important in table tennis or golf. I would not be surprised to see some WNBA players have some XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone levels. While they might have some physical advantages, they don’t automatically become Michael Jordan. But in boxing, could the genetic chromosome makeup give her Mike Tyson power, the answer is probably yes.

I’m not sure she has the power of Mike Tyson as she lost out in the quarterfinals in the previous Olympics. And I think has an overall record of 37-9, and a 9-5 professional record. Maybe something is different this time around?

[Cataholic]

You came out of the gates with the far right media comment. Just wanted to point out that all sides have covered this topic. But it is interesting how you specifically pointed out the far right. Is that a common theme with you?

As for the specific topic, I don’t know that this person is transgender, but there are questions around her/him’s biological identity. That makes participation in any sport with gender a question. Not Khelif’s fault, or the sports admins fault, but it is a biological question.

If Khelif is not transgender but rather a biological mystery, Khelif should sue any media or politician that called her a transgender. She has definitely been harmed by such categorizations.

Lots of people are big mad about “a man competing in a woman’s sport“ when that doesn’t seem to be the case in this instance. You seem to have a more measured approach, and I appreciate that.

I’d still be interested in hearing @Rich K response to further facts on this topic.

Lots of people are big mad that some people don't want boys/men competing in girls/womens sports even if that may not be the case in this instance. When they open their response to a story by dishonestly framing the conversation (far-right media) it's hard to take them seriously.

I’ll edit that out of my initial response to hopefully make it easier to focus on the topic at hand.

Just curious, but what are your thoughts about biological males at birth getting to compete against women?

That’s a good question. And there are a lot of “what if” scenarios, but generally I’m against it.

That said, I don’t think that’s the case in this specific topic @Rich K posted about.

In this case, I’m completely on board with the Algerian boxer competing.

You?

No. It is my understanding that Khelif had an XY chromosome which is what biological men have. This means Khelif may have the physical attributes of a man - such as greater muscle mass and strength. This is why Khelif was banned from the world championships. Unfortunate for Khelif, but understandable why women with XX chromosomes would be upset with her competing.

It sounds like Khelif was born with female genitalia and has lived as a female her entire life. It also sounds like she may have some xy chromosomes in addition to xx chromosomes.

Should we require girls/women to undergo chromosome testing before competing? Is this for all levels and all sports?

Are there other genetic conditions that are tested for and make someone ineligible for competition?

If you want to have a level playing field for the competitors in certain sports, the answer is yes - testing should be required. Boxing and weightlifting are certainly two of those sports. Probably not as important in table tennis or golf. I would not be surprised to see some WNBA players have some XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone levels. While they might have some physical advantages, they don’t automatically become Michael Jordan. But in boxing, could the genetic chromosome makeup give her Mike Tyson power, the answer is probably yes.

I’m not sure she has the power of Mike Tyson as she lost out in the quarterfinals in the previous Olympics. And I think has an overall record of 37-9, and a 9-5 professional record. Maybe something is different this time around?

I thought the same thing, but just like any human being, the longer you train, the more muscle and strength you build. There are ceilings or peaks that every athlete faces in development. Those ceilings are higher for males. That is why women weightlifting records are so much lower than male weightlifting records. Maybe better training over time and maturation has allowed Khelif to reach those higher peaks? What is interesting though is her opponent stated that she has never been hit so hard in a fight. Seems like a reasonable conclusion that Khalif is stronger. Maybe Khelif has always been this strong but has a glass jaw and that is why she has the losses? I really don’t know.

I did learn this morning that the IOC quit “sex testing” in the late 90’s. The gender issue must have existed at one time for the IOC to have such a test before.

[Cataholic]

Let's just go full fifth wave feminism and overturn the Jenny Crow laws. No more separate but equal. Everyone plays together. Everybody wants to be treated as equals, right?

Do you really think such statements help any cause? We should all recognize that females and minorities have faced discrimination over time. What is happening today is actually hurting women’s rights. Letting males compete against females does not help women.

[wbtfg]

@Cataholic

Not quoting just because that quote thread is getting too long to scroll.

It’s definitely an interesting and nuanced discussion. I get annoyed at the “get the men out of women’s sports” crowd because that’s not what this is. Not even close. (Not implying you’re part of that crowd)

Does Kahlif have a genetic advantage? Yes, probably so.


Are there other sports where competitors have genetic advantages? Most definitely.

Should all advantages be regulated out of competition? Not at all

Where do we draw the line? That’s the tough part where the nuance comes into play.

[tdub]

@wbtfg @Cataholic
Just wanted to chime in to say I have enjoyed reading both of your sides of the discussion. Civil, thought out responses without unnecessary personal attacks; no brash generalizations or strange loaded questions, especially after it started out kind of precariously. Kudos to both of you.
If the Discussing The Issues board had this respect and tone, I’m pretty sure we’d still have it. And if our country actually had a lot more of this, just imagine what could be.

[Cataholic]

@wbtfg @Cataholic
Just wanted to chime in to say I have enjoyed reading both of your sides of the discussion. Civil, thought out responses without unnecessary personal attacks; no brash generalizations or strange loaded questions, especially after it started out kind of precariously. Kudos to both of you.
If the Discussing The Issues board had this respect and tone, I’m pretty sure we’d still have it. And if our country actually had a lot more of this, just imagine what could be.

Agree wholeheartedly! I have enjoyed the discussion and wish KMAX would give it another go. I don’t participate in similar discussions on other sites (I don’t really go to other sites either ). My engagement on social and political topics is usually with other similar minded individuals which makes it hard to appreciate the other side at times. My kids are younger and to the left, but sometimes their opinions are so far to the left that we have to be really careful when we talk about such things. This forum allows discussion of the topics with people of similar backgrounds in education, schooling and environment could be fascinating.

[wbtfg]

A little bit of a personal aside, I have a 12 year old son who plays sports. He's my oldest child, so every parenting experience I have with him is new to me.

One thing I've learned is that 12 is a really crazy age...especially when it comes to sports. My son is on the smaller side of average at 5 feet and 100lbs, as he hasn't hit puberty yet. This year he has competed with/against kids FAR bigger than him. The tallest of which is 6-3 (and has a moustache) and the heaviest kid was 225.

For my son who is 5 foot nothing, weighs 100 and nothing, and hasn't had a first voice crack yet, it's not at all a level playing field for him to be playing baseball/football/hockey/basketball against other 12 year olds with facial hair that are a foot taller and 100lbs heavier. Not to mention the kids who are a lot smaller that my son.

That said....that's sports. There isn't any use complaining about it or dwelling on it because there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. Everyone develops differently and someone can work/train harder than anyone else, but eventually almost everyone runs into an opponent who has a genetic advantage.

[Cataholic]

A little bit of a personal aside, I have a 12 year old son who plays sports. He's my oldest child, so every parenting experience I have with him is new to me.

One thing I've learned is that 12 is a really crazy age...especially when it comes to sports. My son is on the smaller side of average at 5 feet and 100lbs, as he hasn't hit puberty yet. This year he has competed with/against kids FAR bigger than him. The tallest of which is 6-3 (and has a moustache) and the heaviest kid was 225.

For my son who is 5 foot nothing, weighs 100 and nothing, and hasn't had a first voice crack yet, it's not at all a level playing field for him to be playing baseball/football/hockey/basketball against other 12 year olds with facial hair that are a foot taller and 100lbs heavier. Not to mention the kids who are a lot smaller that my son.

That said....that's sports. There isn't any use complaining about it or dwelling on it because there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. Everyone develops differently and someone can work/train harder than anyone else, but eventually almost everyone runs into an opponent who has a genetic advantage.

So has your son been training 7 days a week for the last 4 years working toward performing on the worlds largest stage? The potential payout for an Olympic medalist is huge nowadays and people have devoted years of their life to such a possibility. I am not sure that your comparison is applicable. I fully expect your son will catch up and be on a level playing field just a couple years from now.

Using your son’s situation though, let’s say he works his ass off and becomes a great athlete in a couple years. Then his senior year, a transfer comes in who has been using steroids to gain an advantage and knocks him from a starting lineup. I am guessing many girls feel this way when competing g against a transgender.