Fall Camp

[AFCAT]

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

[Colter_Nuanez]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

This is perfectly describing what football coaches would describe as the "run fit". You also hear the term "set the edge". They are all related.

Choate used to always preach about setting the edge. Then he would joke that Amandre Williams and Bryce Sterk were so athletic, especially playing in front of Troy Andersen, the front seven, especially the "edge" players, would "erase the edge" haha.

The team tackle approach, especially in the "Cover 2" defense that MSU ran under Jamie Marshall and the "Cover 3" principles in the 4-2-5 MSU currently runs is an important approach.

There's also been a ton of scuttle on the internet, this board and otherwise, about the gaudy tackle numbers put up by Griz players, particularly Robby Hauck. While it's true that everyone in the league keeps different tackle stats and UM is certainly more liberal about it, it's also true that in the 3-3-5 stack, especially with how the Grizzlies were running it when Kent Baer was the defensive coordinator, the entire run fit was all about setting up the inside linebacker (mostly Dante Olson and Jace Lewis) to be the "free hitter". And if they got caught in the wash or the run fit was for them to eat up a blocker, the next "free hitter" was the alley runner. And that alley runner was always Robby Hauck.

He certainly had serious limitations in space and in coverage. But in terms of the position of running the alley and tackling in the open field, he was very good at that. If you listen to our podcasts with opposing coaches over the years, many of them identified Hauck as a linebacker in UM's scheme. Not a safety. They were essentially running a 3-4-3-1. When you play the 1 and you never come off the field, that's how you have hundreds and hundreds of tackles.

Anyways, great post by @BobcatBuiltTexan . Several of the weaknesses of MSU's defensive scheme and it's tackling were masked in 2021 and 2022 simply because in 2021, Troy Andersen could be completely wrong on a read and still not only make a tackle but make a huge play. He also was so unique in that he could play Sam on one play, Mike on another play, Nickel on the next play, he could play man to man coverage on the best slot in the league in Talolu Limu Jones of EWU and also come off the edge as a pass rusher....and also cover the entire middle of the field. Truly one of a kind, impossible to replicate talent. In 2022, Ty Okada covered up similar weaknesses.

That's why I think the most important position for MSU to solve this camp is nickel. When the guys who play nickel on huge downs are NFL players, you can get away with quite a bit.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

This is perfectly describing what football coaches would describe as the "run fit". You also hear the term "set the edge". They are all related.

Choate used to always preach about setting the edge. Then he would joke that Amandre Williams and Bryce Sterk were so athletic, especially playing in front of Troy Andersen, the front seven, especially the "edge" players, would "erase the edge" haha.

The team tackle approach, especially in the "Cover 2" defense that MSU ran under Jamie Marshall and the "Cover 3" principles in the 4-2-5 MSU currently runs is an important approach.

There's also been a ton of scuttle on the internet, this board and otherwise, about the gaudy tackle numbers put up by Griz players, particularly Robby Hauck. While it's true that everyone in the league keeps different tackle stats and UM is certainly more liberal about it, it's also true that in the 3-3-5 stack, especially with how the Grizzlies were running it when Kent Baer was the defensive coordinator, the entire run fit was all about setting up the inside linebacker (mostly Dante Olson and Jace Lewis) to be the "free hitter". And if they got caught in the wash or the run fit was for them to eat up a blocker, the next "free hitter" was the alley runner. And that alley runner was always Robby Hauck.

He certainly had serious limitations in space and in coverage. But in terms of the position of running the alley and tackling in the open field, he was very good at that. If you listen to our podcasts with opposing coaches over the years, many of them identified Hauck as a linebacker in UM's scheme. Not a safety. They were essentially running a 3-4-3-1. When you play the 1 and you never come off the field, that's how you have hundreds and hundreds of tackles.

Anyways, great post by @BobcatBuiltTexan . Several of the weaknesses of MSU's defensive scheme and it's tackling were masked in 2021 and 2022 simply because in 2021, Troy Andersen could be completely wrong on a read and still not only make a tackle but make a huge play. He also was so unique in that he could play Sam on one play, Mike on another play, Nickel on the next play, he could play man to man coverage on the best slot in the league in Talolu Limu Jones of EWU and also come off the edge as a pass rusher....and also cover the entire middle of the field. Truly one of a kind, impossible to replicate talent. In 2022, Ty Okada covered up similar weaknesses.

That's why I think the most important position for MSU to solve this camp is nickel. When the guys who play nickel on huge downs are NFL players, you can get away with quite a bit.

Yes sir...."run fit" is another way of expressing having appropriate leverage. Yes in the 4-2-5 the nickel can be a game changer. When i was coaching hs it was more important to have a top tier safety as we funneled everything to the free safety. He was the robber in pass coverages and was the free hitter in run schemes(we called him a lber at depth). Not a big fan of the 3-3-5, way too many bubbles for my liking. You also give up blocking angles everywhere. When we didn't have a great safety we leaned on lock down corners. They took away the wrs which showed us to free up the safeties to fill the run and simplify their reads in the pass game. I look forward to the scrimmage recap

[TomCat88]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

Any chance you're a really hot single female? If so, where have you been all my life!!

[TomCat88]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I saw a picture of the OL on Twitter, and Samora Ezekiel looks like he’s as wide as two people. Looks way bigger than 285.

[AFCAT]

[AFCAT]

[TomCat88]

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure MSU is focusing on checking down to short range passes in camp. So that's probably why you don't see a lot of yards and high completion percentages. Very smart as they will need to do this against good opposition.

[PHAT CAT]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

Any chance you're a really hot single female? If so, where have you been all my life!!

LOL....

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Any updates on tackling? It seemed last year it was common for the opposing offense to get another 2-4 yards after initial contact and it extended drives.

Was that a technique flaw being taught by Garza and is it all improving?

The interviews with both Daly and Howe, they emphasized tackling and leverage. Both stated that was an area they have been working hard to improve on.

It was the main problem on defense last year so I wondered if it was a technique issue or if they were slightly out of position due to scheme.

It’s not like the guys were trying on purpose to miss tackles, so maybe it was a schematic problem of being a fraction late to spots to make clean tackles instead of the YAC that extended too many drives.

I got the impression it was a leverage issue. I’m not sure if that was due to scheme, lack of practice in that area or what. But both coaches made sure to emphasize leverage as part of becoming better tacklers.

Every play I watched I heard Owens yelling “leverage” and even tho I don’t know exactly what it means I do know that it’s definitely a huge emphasis.

I had made a post but somehow it didn't submit....leverage is basically keeping the ball carrier bottled up.

So the ball carrier runs off tackle.... the ILB is scraping over the top of a block and is the inside leverage man staying on the inside shoulder/hip, he doesn't let the ball carrier cut back across his face... the safety is the alley runner going to the nose of the football, he is true point of attack, but he can't over run the ball carrier or get outran to the edge.... the cb is the outside leverage man making sure he doesn't get outside of him funneling to the safety and the Ilb pursingb from the inside. There are 3pts of attack and is a team tackle approach. No one man has to fully bring a ball carrier down because if everybody is doing their job we have at minimum 2 people tackling the ball carrier(typically the cb is dealing with a stalk block and his securing his leverage by body position not necessarily by actually tackling the outside shoulder).

If Owens, the safety coach, is yelling leverage its a reminder to his safeties to fill the alley but don't over run the play allowing for a cut back or allowing him to outrun him to the edge putting him in the same leverage point as the ILB cutting off his help. If the are stressing leverage typically that means people aren't getting to their run responsibilities at the correct point of attack and we are giving the ball carrier lanes to gain yards. If everyone has the correct leverage point then the ball carrier should be "bottled up" and we gang tackle limiting yards.

Any chance you're a really hot single female? If so, where have you been all my life!!

Very far from lolol

[BleedingBLue]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

[AFCAT]

[Helcat72]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

I was there...from a distance and how they treated it, it looked like a high ankle sprain. Just my observation. His younger brother took over and poor Tommy was chasing snaps 20 yards backwards after that when the 1's were against the 1"s. Later on he settled down a little, but we can never take Justus for granted! He's a main cog in our success this year. Hope he's back soon.

[LoggerCat]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

I was there...from a distance and how they treated it, it looked like a high ankle sprain. Just my observation. His younger brother took over and poor Tommy was chasing snaps 20 yards backwards after that when the 1's were against the 1"s. Later on he settled down a little, but we can never take Justus for granted! He's a main cog in our success this year. Hope he's back soon.

Anyone know what the typical recovery time would be for a high ankle sprain?

[TomCat88]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

I was there...from a distance and how they treated it, it looked like a high ankle sprain. Just my observation. His younger brother took over and poor Tommy was chasing snaps 20 yards backwards after that when the 1's were against the 1"s. Later on he settled down a little, but we can never take Justus for granted! He's a main cog in our success this year. Hope he's back soon.

Anyone know what the typical recovery time would be for a high ankle sprain?

20 years ago in was 10 weeks. A search will tell you a variety of recovery times. 4-6 weeks, 6-8 weeks, 8-12 weeks.

Remember when Troy messed up his ankle, but he was back in two weeks. I never did find out what he had exactly but it wasn’t your run of the mill sprain. They have some amazing surgeries and therapies these days.

[LoggerCat]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

I was there...from a distance and how they treated it, it looked like a high ankle sprain. Just my observation. His younger brother took over and poor Tommy was chasing snaps 20 yards backwards after that when the 1's were against the 1"s. Later on he settled down a little, but we can never take Justus for granted! He's a main cog in our success this year. Hope he's back soon.

Anyone know what the typical recovery time would be for a high ankle sprain?

20 years ago in was 10 weeks.

Hopefully it’s not too serious.

Sain has played some center so I figure he’d slide if he’s ready to go. Anyone else in the OL room ready to go at center? Nyland?

[TomCat88]

Haven’t confirmed but I just heard Justus Perkins injured his knee.

Latest word is that this is an ankle injury. But still no confirmation on that.

Hopefully it's not serious.

I was there...from a distance and how they treated it, it looked like a high ankle sprain. Just my observation. His younger brother took over and poor Tommy was chasing snaps 20 yards backwards after that when the 1's were against the 1"s. Later on he settled down a little, but we can never take Justus for granted! He's a main cog in our success this year. Hope he's back soon.

Anyone know what the typical recovery time would be for a high ankle sprain?

20 years ago in was 10 weeks.

Hopefully it’s not too serious.

Sain has played some center so I figure he’d slide if he’s ready to go. Anyone else in the OL room ready to go at center? Nyland?

I thought I saw 57, Everett Carr, playing some center on Friday but not positive.

[Colter_Nuanez]