Fall Camp

[coloradocat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

Whoever you think you're arguing with sure seems to have a high opinion of Lamson. Unfortunately that person isn't me. I never said "a drop down guy is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year". You seem to have trouble distinguishing between the words "could" and "can" versus "will" or "is going to". The premise of the original statement was that we "could be" better this year, not that we definitely will be. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's possible that we could ever have a QB better than Tommy, as great as he was. I agree with you that it's unlikely but I don't think it's impossible.

Since I ultimately agree with you that Tommy was great and it's a lot to ask for anyone to come in and be better than him I think we can just agree to agree and forget about hypotheticals.

[kwcat]

I am definitely pulling for the kid from Florence. Just hoping that he can compete. no idea who the Choice will be. Wilson has too much open field speed to not be used in some capacity. Hope they find a place for him as well.
At this point, I am hearing possibly two getting quite a few reps until the decision is made

[BelligerentBobcat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

You’re being too emotional about the topic.

For starters, I never said for sure that Lamson will be better. I said, IF he plays like I THINK he is capable of, then he COULD end up being a better QB than Tommy. That’s an awful lot of qualifiers. Then, you’re completely ignoring the idea that at the QB position, one can be a better player, one can be a better true QB, and they can have different, or similar results. I have been consistent in thinking a QB that can consistently be a successful passer in all aspects unlocks a level to the offense that we have no seen. A different, more balanced offense that allows for better success against better teams. Likely won’t have any difference against bad teams, but against good teams when you can attack in multiple different ways, it’s hard to defend. Heck, look at what the offense did in Tommy’s last year when he did improve his passing game dramatically. Look at how the offense did when Chambers was the sole starter. It makes a difference! It keeps defenders off the LOS. How often did you see teams stack the box and limit the running game? They can’t do that when a QB can consistently attack those holes. So yes, Tommy absolutely is the better overall player, but if Lamson can be a legitimate passing QB, he can take the offense places that Tommy couldn’t. That’s not a knock on Tommy at all, as I’ve said, he’s one of the best players I’ve ever seen. I’d take a player just like him in a heart beat and not think twice about it. Likely a once in a lifetime caliber player for us, but that does not mean his overall team impact cannot be replicated.

Finally, it seems like some (not necessarily you), but some people think in order to lift Tommy up they have to limit the other players. The guys we have are really good. Really, freaking, good.

[luckyirishguy25]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

You’re being too emotional about the topic.

For starters, I never said for sure that Lamson will be better. I said, IF he plays like I THINK he is capable of, then he COULD end up being a better QB than Tommy. That’s an awful lot of qualifiers. Then, you’re completely ignoring the idea that at the QB position, one can be a better player, one can be a better true QB, and they can have different, or similar results. I have been consistent in thinking a QB that can consistently be a successful passer in all aspects unlocks a level to the offense that we have no seen. A different, more balanced offense that allows for better success against better teams. Likely won’t have any difference against bad teams, but against good teams when you can attack in multiple different ways, it’s hard to defend. Heck, look at what the offense did in Tommy’s last year when he did improve his passing game dramatically. Look at how the offense did when Chambers was the sole starter. It makes a difference! It keeps defenders off the LOS. How often did you see teams stack the box and limit the running game? They can’t do that when a QB can consistently attack those holes. So yes, Tommy absolutely is the better overall player, but if Lamson can be a legitimate passing QB, he can take the offense places that Tommy couldn’t. That’s not a knock on Tommy at all, as I’ve said, he’s one of the best players I’ve ever seen. I’d take a player just like him in a heart beat and not think twice about it. Likely a once in a lifetime caliber player for us, but that does not mean his overall team impact cannot be replicated.

Finally, it seems like some (not necessarily you), but some people think in order to lift Tommy up they have to limit the other players. The guys we have are really good. Really, freaking, good.

Good post. I think the comparison of Tommy and Lamson is apples to oranges, it seems the better comparison is Sean Chambers. If Lamson is as good as Chambers was, we're going to win a lot of games.

[LTown Cat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

You’re being too emotional about the topic.

For starters, I never said for sure that Lamson will be better. I said, IF he plays like I THINK he is capable of, then he COULD end up being a better QB than Tommy. That’s an awful lot of qualifiers. Then, you’re completely ignoring the idea that at the QB position, one can be a better player, one can be a better true QB, and they can have different, or similar results. I have been consistent in thinking a QB that can consistently be a successful passer in all aspects unlocks a level to the offense that we have no seen. A different, more balanced offense that allows for better success against better teams. Likely won’t have any difference against bad teams, but against good teams when you can attack in multiple different ways, it’s hard to defend. Heck, look at what the offense did in Tommy’s last year when he did improve his passing game dramatically. Look at how the offense did when Chambers was the sole starter. It makes a difference! It keeps defenders off the LOS. How often did you see teams stack the box and limit the running game? They can’t do that when a QB can consistently attack those holes. So yes, Tommy absolutely is the better overall player, but if Lamson can be a legitimate passing QB, he can take the offense places that Tommy couldn’t. That’s not a knock on Tommy at all, as I’ve said, he’s one of the best players I’ve ever seen. I’d take a player just like him in a heart beat and not think twice about it. Likely a once in a lifetime caliber player for us, but that does not mean his overall team impact cannot be replicated.

Finally, it seems like some (not necessarily you), but some people think in order to lift Tommy up they have to limit the other players. The guys we have are really good. Really, freaking, good.

Good post. I think the comparison of Tommy and Lamson is apples to oranges, it seems the better comparison is Sean Chambers. If Lamson is as good as Chambers was, we're going to win a lot of games.

Oh man...I'd take that all day long. I was in the camp that Sean should've been the full time QB when Tommy was a junior. Tommy silenced me last season!

[BelligerentBobcat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

You’re being too emotional about the topic.

For starters, I never said for sure that Lamson will be better. I said, IF he plays like I THINK he is capable of, then he COULD end up being a better QB than Tommy. That’s an awful lot of qualifiers. Then, you’re completely ignoring the idea that at the QB position, one can be a better player, one can be a better true QB, and they can have different, or similar results. I have been consistent in thinking a QB that can consistently be a successful passer in all aspects unlocks a level to the offense that we have no seen. A different, more balanced offense that allows for better success against better teams. Likely won’t have any difference against bad teams, but against good teams when you can attack in multiple different ways, it’s hard to defend. Heck, look at what the offense did in Tommy’s last year when he did improve his passing game dramatically. Look at how the offense did when Chambers was the sole starter. It makes a difference! It keeps defenders off the LOS. How often did you see teams stack the box and limit the running game? They can’t do that when a QB can consistently attack those holes. So yes, Tommy absolutely is the better overall player, but if Lamson can be a legitimate passing QB, he can take the offense places that Tommy couldn’t. That’s not a knock on Tommy at all, as I’ve said, he’s one of the best players I’ve ever seen. I’d take a player just like him in a heart beat and not think twice about it. Likely a once in a lifetime caliber player for us, but that does not mean his overall team impact cannot be replicated.

Finally, it seems like some (not necessarily you), but some people think in order to lift Tommy up they have to limit the other players. The guys we have are really good. Really, freaking, good.

Good post. I think the comparison of Tommy and Lamson is apples to oranges, it seems the better comparison is Sean Chambers. If Lamson is as good as Chambers was, we're going to win a lot of games.

Oh if we’re doing comparables I’d absolutely agree. He reminds me a lot of Chambers. I think a better passer and not as fast, but we’ll see. I’ve been horrifically wrong before.

[TomCat88]

I wouldn't be too worried about the QB spot. Just look at the past few QBs (Andersen, Rovig, McKay, Mellott, Chambers) and how well MSU did as a team. Andersen first round win, Rovig to the semis, McKay 9-2, Mellott title game as a frosh, Chambers/Mellott semis and an underachieving season but a team much better than its record, Mellott 15-1/Payton Award.

I think Vigen has a lot to work with aside from Lamson. I think Grant Vigen and River Warren are going to make big strides this year. I thought both Wilson and Duchein looked good in the spring game.

Montana QBs are few and far between. Mellott himself decried the fact that there aren't and QB camps/schools in Montana and that's detrimental to their development. Plus, if you are good at that position, it's difficult to develop in high school because there's usually only 2-3 teams that put you to the test. Of the MT QBs that do start not many of them are in that Dickenson/Mellott realm. I thought Selle and Compson were pretty good, but the I didn't think Edwards, Gustafson or Tuss were all that hot. That's going back 30 years.

Vigen has the huge advantage of having his dad, who has developed quite a few QBs and like having a QB school in his house. I went to practice on Tuesday, and he's got a live arm.

The bottom line is Vigen made McKay into a 150+ passer rating guy in just a short amount of time. He put together one of the most successful 2 QB systems anywhere. He developed a MT kid, Mellott, into a 160+ rating guy. Mellot was efficient in the pass game. I have a hard time imagining that Lamson or whoever the QB is, even if Lamson gets hurt, isn't going to more than serviceable. Rovig was the QB when MSU went to the semifinals in 2019 and he didn't have a head coach that was good with QBs. He also didn't have the players around him that this year's QB is going to have.

[coloradocat]

I wouldn't be too worried about the QB spot. Just look at the past few QBs (Andersen, Rovig, McKay, Mellott, Chambers) and how well MSU did as a team. Andersen first round win, Rovig to the semis, McKay 9-2, Mellott title game as a frosh, Chambers/Mellott semis and an underachieving season but a team much better than its record, Mellott 15-1/Payton Award.

I think Vigen has a lot to work with aside from Lamson. I think Grant Vigen and River Warren are going to make big strides this year. I thought both Wilson and Duchein looked good in the spring game.

Montana QBs are few and far between. Mellott himself decried the fact that there aren't and QB camps/schools in Montana and that's detrimental to their development. Plus, if you are good at that position, it's difficult to develop in high school because there's usually only 2-3 teams that put you to the test. Of the MT QBs that do start not many of them are in that Dickenson/Mellott realm. I thought Selle and Compson were pretty good, but the I didn't think Edwards, Gustafson or Tuss were all that hot. That's going back 30 years.

Vigen has the huge advantage of having his dad, who has developed quite a few QBs and like having a QB school in his house. I went to practice on Tuesday, and he's got a live arm.

The bottom line is Vigen made McKay into a 150+ passer rating guy in just a short amount of time. He put together one of the most successful 2 QB systems anywhere. He developed a MT kid, Mellott, into a 160+ rating guy. Mellot was efficient in the pass game. I have a hard time imagining that Lamson or whoever the QB is, even if Lamson gets hurt, isn't going to more than serviceable. Rovig was the QB when MSU went to the semifinals in 2019 and he didn't have a head coach that was good with QBs. He also didn't have the players around him that this year's QB is going to have.

It would be cool if Tommy and Rovig teamed up for a MT QB camp.

Week 2 will likely be the difference between a top 2-4 seed or a top 6-8 seed (depending on Cat/griz outcome) but after that game we really have the next 9 weeks of the season to get the QB dialed in for the playoff run. We'll hopefully be in a good enough spot as an overall team that we won't need our QB to be All Conference level against SDSU anyway.

[kwcat]

At quarterback in regards to passing, I think Duchein is the most proficient, followed by Lamson/Wilson.
Lamson is the more physical runner of the three.
Wilson has the most speed.
Duchein probably the calmest and most cerebral.
Who wins the starting job in the next couple of weeks may not be the continued starter as the season progresses, depending on who improves the most in the areas needed
just my observations. We’ll see what plays out.

[iaafan]

At quarterback in regards to passing, I think Duchein is the most proficient, followed by Lamson/Wilson.
Lamson is the more physical runner of the three.
Wilson has the most speed.
Duchein probably the calmest and most cerebral.
Who wins the starting job in the next couple of weeks may not be the continued starter as the season progresses, depending on who improves the most in the areas needed
just my observations. We’ll see what plays out.

I don’t even think Duchien thinks that based on his interview. It’s Lamson, Wilson, Duchien, Vigen/River right now. I doubt that changes. We’ll know Saturday. They’re all getting better just being in this system.

[GoldstoneCat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

Whoever you think you're arguing with sure seems to have a high opinion of Lamson. Unfortunately that person isn't me. I never said "a drop down guy is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year". You seem to have trouble distinguishing between the words "could" and "can" versus "will" or "is going to". The premise of the original statement was that we "could be" better this year, not that we definitely will be. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's possible that we could ever have a QB better than Tommy, as great as he was. I agree with you that it's unlikely but I don't think it's impossible.

Since I ultimately agree with you that Tommy was great and it's a lot to ask for anyone to come in and be better than him I think we can just agree to agree and forget about hypotheticals.

Was really more belligerent than you, but got rolled into the same comment. I definitely think we'll be different, and i think we'll be productive. Replacing Tommy and 2 big time tackles is a challenge. Zimmer is going to have some growing pains at LT if he indeed wins the job. I expect the offense overall to be similar but be more true RPO than the run--run-pass we've seen. I just think it's going to be hard to be better statistically than last years crew. That was an outfit on offense.

[iaafan]

I wouldn't be too worried about the QB spot. Just look at the past few QBs (Andersen, Rovig, McKay, Mellott, Chambers) and how well MSU did as a team. Andersen first round win, Rovig to the semis, McKay 9-2, Mellott title game as a frosh, Chambers/Mellott semis and an underachieving season but a team much better than its record, Mellott 15-1/Payton Award.

I think Vigen has a lot to work with aside from Lamson. I think Grant Vigen and River Warren are going to make big strides this year. I thought both Wilson and Duchein looked good in the spring game.

Montana QBs are few and far between. Mellott himself decried the fact that there aren't and QB camps/schools in Montana and that's detrimental to their development. Plus, if you are good at that position, it's difficult to develop in high school because there's usually only 2-3 teams that put you to the test. Of the MT QBs that do start not many of them are in that Dickenson/Mellott realm. I thought Selle and Compson were pretty good, but the I didn't think Edwards, Gustafson or Tuss were all that hot. That's going back 30 years.

Vigen has the huge advantage of having his dad, who has developed quite a few QBs and like having a QB school in his house. I went to practice on Tuesday, and he's got a live arm.

The bottom line is Vigen made McKay into a 150+ passer rating guy in just a short amount of time. He put together one of the most successful 2 QB systems anywhere. He developed a MT kid, Mellott, into a 160+ rating guy. Mellot was efficient in the pass game. I have a hard time imagining that Lamson or whoever the QB is, even if Lamson gets hurt, isn't going to more than serviceable. Rovig was the QB when MSU went to the semifinals in 2019 and he didn't have a head coach that was good with QBs. He also didn't have the players around him that this year's QB is going to have.

It would be cool if Tommy and Rovig teamed up for a MT QB camp.

Week 2 will likely be the difference between a top 2-4 seed or a top 6-8 seed (depending on Cat/griz outcome) but after that game we really have the next 9 weeks of the season to get the QB dialed in for the playoff run. We'll hopefully be in a good enough spot as an overall team that we won't need our QB to be All Conference level against SDSU anyway.

The quarterback will be dialed in for game one. I have no doubt in my mind about that.

[nanacat]

I'm not really sure why it's necessary to throw Tommy under the bus on order to elevate Lamson. Good grief he hasn't been made QB1 yet, and hasn't played a snap. Until he does, Tommy is one of the best QBs MSU has fielded and we should be grateful for what he brought to the team, both as a player, as a representative for the university, and as a genuine great person.
To think he's irreplaceable is also wrong. There will be others who are better, as that is what college football demands and creates. This program, in the short time that I've been a fan, (15 years) has grown into something terrific! I'm excited to see who the next Walter Payton award winner is from MSU, who actually leads the team to that National Championship win, and next undefeated season.
Tommy left his mark on this program and made it better, maybe Lamson will too. Let's wait and see.

Who has thrown Tommy under the bus?

There just seems to be several who feel the need to address all Tommy's faults in this thread, in comparison to how great Lamson is, or will be, and it just hit me wrong since we don't even know if he'll be QB1, and hasn't played a snap. I hope he'll be awesome, I hope all our QBs will. And someday there will be a better QB playing for MSUZ than Tommy, of course.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I know, I understand what I’m saying sounds crazy. I’m probably being overly optimistic here, but let me explain.

Stylistically, I believe a QB like Tommy was gives a team a very high floor. That running game will nearly always work. It also makes you highly dependent on one player.

If, and I’m stressing the if, Lamson can pass like I think he can, it opens the offense tremendously. Despite what the stats say, Tommy just wasn’t a super dependable passer. There were certainly fantastic flashes, but consistently, I would say no. I believe a true dual threat QB, one who can dependably pass the ball, can unlock a different dimension and higher ceiling to this offense.

At the end of the day, Tommy is a better athlete, and the better player. I think Lamson might be a better QB and lead to a higher ceiling for the offense.

Tommy Mellott won the Walter Payton award as the best offensive football player in fcs football. If Lamson is going to be better than that, he's going to be quite possibly the best to ever play here. Might he be a better passer? Maybe. But we were f$@#ing prolific on offense last year. A wagon. Being 86% of that this year gets us to Nashville.

Again, I said that Tommy is the better player. If Lamson performs as well as I think he can, I think he can be the better QB.

That's a fine line you're trying to walk there. When the best offensive player in the country is playing QB for your team, pretty hard argument to make that Lamson will be the better QB. I think i get what you're trying to say, that he can helm a balanced offense in a more "traditional" sense better than Tommy could. Be more efficient with his passing (questionable imo). It's definitely going to look different, as much of what Tommy did last year was half field reads and schemed up throws, but the fact remains he led a hugely prolific offense. If this year's offense is as productive we're going to be near impossible to deal with bc i think we're going to be better on defense, especially in the front 7. I think you're going to be wrong, actually, I think the offense will take a step back, but I still think we're gonna be right there in the mix at the end of December because our roster is deep all the way thru.

Not really, Cam Miller was a better QB, Tommy a better athlete. You also acknowledge he had half field reads. If we can get full field this year and running ability he could be a better QB. with that said I do believe OC held Tommy back at times passing, being to coservative to avoid TOs.

If Lamson is cam Miller we'll be pretty happy. I would wager a pretty penny that our offense will be less prolific than last year because we don't get as much production from the QB. If you want to parse from there who the better pure passer is, be my guest, because that's really what you're arguing when you say "better QB." I'm saying in total I think y'all are nuts to expect "better" QB play than last year, when it was the best in the US of A in FCS football. He accounted for 3809 yards of offense, 46 TDs, 69% completion percentage, threw 2 (!) interceptions, and led the country in both passing efficiency and points responsible. So just on the passing... you think we're getting 70% and 31 TDs from our starting QB this year with 3,000 air yards? I want that hopium you're taking.

Just to wrap all your arguments up: Tommy was the greatest QB in school history and by such a margin (at least on a single year sample size) that it's unrealistic to think someone else can come in and be better at playing the position?

It feels like that has to be the argument, or at the very least that 2024 was peak Bobcats offensively and we'll never see a "better" team than them and he'll be the only Payton award winner we ever have. Tommy excelled in the situation and system he was in but that system was definitely designed for the possibility of him excelling. With Lamson, the hope is that he's a much more complete QB that will open up possibilities that weren't available with Tommy.

Everyone here appreciates what Tommy accomplished last year and throughout his career. To say someone could be better at the position is not an insult to him.

Tommy can stand on his own, he doesn't need me to defend him. I think if people are expecting better qb play and more offense than last year that's unrealistic. Pie in the sky. I'm supposed to be sold on the fact that a drop down guy (quick, name the last one to be first team all conference at QB here) is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year? Based on what? Justin Lamson has done exactly what to make all of us so confident he's an upgrade over the best offensive football player in the country last season? I mean, I hope you're right. I just think you're not right. If those are the expectations, they're lofty.

Whoever you think you're arguing with sure seems to have a high opinion of Lamson. Unfortunately that person isn't me. I never said "a drop down guy is going to come in and be better than the guy who was the best player in the country last year". You seem to have trouble distinguishing between the words "could" and "can" versus "will" or "is going to". The premise of the original statement was that we "could be" better this year, not that we definitely will be. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's possible that we could ever have a QB better than Tommy, as great as he was. I agree with you that it's unlikely but I don't think it's impossible.

Since I ultimately agree with you that Tommy was great and it's a lot to ask for anyone to come in and be better than him I think we can just agree to agree and forget about hypotheticals.

Was really more belligerent than you, but got rolled into the same comment. I definitely think we'll be different, and i think we'll be productive. Replacing Tommy and 2 big time tackles is a challenge. Zimmer is going to have some growing pains at LT if he indeed wins the job. I expect the offense overall to be similar but be more true RPO than the run--run-pass we've seen. I just think it's going to be hard to be better statistically than last years crew. That was an outfit on offense.

I think it’s possible to be worse statistically but still better overall. For example, maybe we run for less yards, or even pass for less yards, but the per carry or per attempt mark is higher. Maybe we score less because we play more ball control/have less explosive plays. I’m mostly interested in efficiency and performing well against the best of the best. Don’t really care what we do against Mercyhurst. Games like that skew the stats.

[BelligerentBobcat]

I'm not really sure why it's necessary to throw Tommy under the bus on order to elevate Lamson. Good grief he hasn't been made QB1 yet, and hasn't played a snap. Until he does, Tommy is one of the best QBs MSU has fielded and we should be grateful for what he brought to the team, both as a player, as a representative for the university, and as a genuine great person.
To think he's irreplaceable is also wrong. There will be others who are better, as that is what college football demands and creates. This program, in the short time that I've been a fan, (15 years) has grown into something terrific! I'm excited to see who the next Walter Payton award winner is from MSU, who actually leads the team to that National Championship win, and next undefeated season.
Tommy left his mark on this program and made it better, maybe Lamson will too. Let's wait and see.

Who has thrown Tommy under the bus?

There just seems to be several who feel the need to address all Tommy's faults in this thread, in comparison to how great Lamson is, or will be, and it just hit me wrong since we don't even know if he'll be QB1, and hasn't played a snap. I hope he'll be awesome, I hope all our QBs will. And someday there will be a better QB playing for MSUZ than Tommy, of course.

I think it’s okay to rationally talk about potential differences of players. It should be okay to say he wasn’t the best passing QB in the world. It’s nothing personal.

[TomCat88]

Tommy really encapsulated himself over a four series stretch vs EWU. After the Eagles tied 28-28, he broke off a 75-yard TD run. Gets the ball back and goes three and out with incomplete pass in second down and completion on third two yards short, then throws INT, then throws essentially the game clinching TD with a dime deep to Ty McCullouch. The INT was an anomaly but the rest was right on script.

[MSU01]

Tommy really encapsulated himself over a four series stretch vs EWU. After the Eagles tied 28-28, he broke off a 75-yard TD run. Gets the ball back and goes three and out with incomplete pass in second down and completion on third two yards short, then throws INT, then throws essentially the game clinching TD with a dime deep to Ty McCullouch. The INT was an anomaly but the rest was right on script.

Also the New Mexico game when he overcame giving 14 points to the defense to lead MSU back in the second half. Wouldn't have happened without Adam's long TD run of course, but Tommy was absolute money on the final drive.

[TomCat88]

The defense was really good last and within that series of series they had three huge stops in a game that had gotten shaky.

I think MSU’s defense will be better this year. I love Jody Owens coaching the linebackers. I got to watch him work his guys through some drills Tuesday and was mesmerized. If he sticks around and becomes MSU’s DC and the stars are aligned when Vigen is heading out, I wouldn’t even open up an interview process.

[TomCat88]

Tommy really encapsulated himself over a four series stretch vs EWU. After the Eagles tied 28-28, he broke off a 75-yard TD run. Gets the ball back and goes three and out with incomplete pass in second down and completion on third two yards short, then throws INT, then throws essentially the game clinching TD with a dime deep to Ty McCullouch. The INT was an anomaly but the rest was right on script.

Also the New Mexico game when he overcame giving 14 points to the defense to lead MSU back in the second half. Wouldn't have happened without Adam's long TD run of course, but Tommy was absolute money on the final drive.

Word.

And he only failed once in those situations. But that happens. Lulay fumbled on a potential game winning drive vs PSU. McGhee threw a pick at Wazzu late. It happens to everyone.

[Catsrgrood]

I think MSU’s defense will be better this year. I love Jody Owens coaching the linebackers. I got to watch him work his guys through some drills Tuesday and was mesmerized. If he sticks around and becomes MSU’s DC and the stars are aligned when Vigen is heading out, I wouldn’t even open up an interview process.

I’ve been seeing this a lot lately. And I want it to be true as much as anyone.

But what is the basis for it?

Going group by group it’s hard to see, at least initially on paper, how they’re going to be better than last year.

Interior DL- I can see being as good or better than last year

DE- maybe as good? Grebe isn’t easily replaceable but I can definitely see Eiden, Crews, Parsons and company taking that next step and replacing that production. But I’m not sure about being better than last year necessarily.

LB- Grebe and Daily look to be solid, maybe really good. But we had quite the duo to start the year last year with McCade and Danny U. So again, maybe as good? I’ll be pleasantly surprised is they’re better than last year.

CB- plenty has been talked about how talented but young they are. They very well may be better, but Powdrell and Johnson were a good duo. I’m sure they could be better as a group, but one that I’ll have to see before I buy into it too much.

Safety- I think Dowler could have a big year and I’ve heard good things about Taki, but replacing Ortt and Polidore is no small feat.

Add in losing a DC that we all know was very good last year and I’m just not sold the D will be better.

I hope they are. I’m no insider, but I just haven’t quite understood the talk about them being better this year. I’ve heard it from multiple people though, so it could be something I’m not seeing.