2025 Griz Hail Mary

[Cataholic]

Maybe. This story makes it sound like the Cats and Griz have been even-Steven the last 5 years. Simply not true.

The author uses the last three years as a comparison. Meanwhile, since 2019 the Cats were in 4 semi finals and two finals. Griz 1 semi and 1 final. Cats have two undefeated seasons and only four losses in the BSC. Griz have one 7-1 season and 12 losses.

The last three years Cats are 22-2, Griz 16-8.

Cute, using the old “conference records only” for your analysis. This would be effective if all the teams played the same teams. This is a terrible statistical analysis when the same teams don’t play each other. Quite literally apples to oranges.

If you look at the most wins by an FCS coach, the last five years, both Vigen and Hauck are at the tops of that list. Seems to me they can both coach.

Pathetic. How many FCS coaches have been coaching the same team the last five years? Not Vigen. But in his four years he’s won 29 conference games, 47 overall. Hauck has 22 and 40 in that same timeframe. 29-3 (90%) vs 22-10.
(69%). 11 of the 22 vs psu, ISU, UNC and Poly. 47-11 vs 40-15. It isn’t close and MSU has played a tougher schedule. League and overall. MSU played one of the toughest schedules in FCS history in 2023 vs six top 10 with 5 on the road. Non-conference vs Wyoming, Oregon St, New Mexico, NDSU three times, SDSU twice. Only two of those at home. No D2s. And MSU has a better record vs common opponents.

Wow! Taking from your quote above:

Hauck was 22-10 in conference play (69%). 11 of the 22 vs psu, ISU, UNC and Poly.

It is incredible to think that if you remove Griz wins over PSU, ISU, UNC and Poly, they are only 11-10 against the upper half of the conference. That should be a clear indication of how average the Gris have become.

[Prodigal Cat]

Bobcat playoff record 2021-2024: 8-4
Championship appearances: 2
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 3x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x

Griz playoff record 2021-2024: 6-4
Championship appearances: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x, Other 2x

Bobcats playoff appearances: 6
Cat-Griz wins: 4
Bobcat playoff record 2018-2024: 11-6
Championship appearances: 2
Semifinals: 4
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 5x, Nat'l Runner Up 1

Griz playoff appearances: 5
Cat-Griz wins: 2
Griz playoff record 2018-2024: 7-5
Championship appearances: 1
Semifinals: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 2x Other 2x

One small correction. Cats lost to Nat'l Champ 5X and the semifinal loser. Bison lost to the griz in '23

[coloradocat]

Bobcat playoff record 2021-2024: 8-4
Championship appearances: 2
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 3x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x

Griz playoff record 2021-2024: 6-4
Championship appearances: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x, Other 2x

Bobcats playoff appearances: 6
Cat-Griz wins: 4
Bobcat playoff record 2018-2024: 11-6
Championship appearances: 2
Semifinals: 4
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 5x, Nat'l Runner Up 1

Griz playoff appearances: 5
Cat-Griz wins: 2
Griz playoff record 2018-2024: 7-5
Championship appearances: 1
Semifinals: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 2x Other 2x

Yeah but what if they do the compare going back to 1995?!

I kept it to Vigen vs Bobbi as those are the current coaches but you can dice up all kinds of historical comparisons.

[TomCat88]

Bobcat playoff record 2021-2024: 8-4
Championship appearances: 2
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 3x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x

Griz playoff record 2021-2024: 6-4
Championship appearances: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 1x, Other 2x

Bobcats playoff appearances: 6
Cat-Griz wins: 4
Bobcat playoff record 2018-2024: 11-6
Championship appearances: 2
Semifinals: 4
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 5x, Nat'l Runner Up 1

Griz playoff appearances: 5
Cat-Griz wins: 2
Griz playoff record 2018-2024: 7-5
Championship appearances: 1
Semifinals: 1
Lost to: Nat'l Champ 1x, Nat'l Runner Up 2x Other 2x

Yeah but what if they do the compare going back to 1995?!

I kept it to Vigen vs Bobbi as those are the current coaches but you can dice up all kinds of historical comparisons.

I should’ve titled mine. Hauck 2.0.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Maybe. This story makes it sound like the Cats and Griz have been even-Steven the last 5 years. Simply not true.

The author uses the last three years as a comparison. Meanwhile, since 2019 the Cats were in 4 semi finals and two finals. Griz 1 semi and 1 final. Cats have two undefeated seasons and only four losses in the BSC. Griz have one 7-1 season and 12 losses.

The last three years Cats are 22-2, Griz 16-8.

Cute, using the old “conference records only” for your analysis. This would be effective if all the teams played the same teams. This is a terrible statistical analysis when the same teams don’t play each other. Quite literally apples to oranges.

If you look at the most wins by an FCS coach, the last five years, both Vigen and Hauck are at the tops of that list. Seems to me they can both coach.

You are correct that it’s hard to judge when they don’t all play the same teams. So let’s go from 2021 to current, and take totals wins and losses against teams with winning records, from FCS or FBS only.

Hauck: 16-12. 57% winning record. This includes a year where they beat a team with barely a winning record in the pioneer conference, but lost to UND who barely had a losing record in a much better conference.

Vigen: 19-10. 65% winning record. This does not include 1 win against an FBS school that would have had a winning record if they were FCS. It does include a loss against an FBS school with a winning record and a loss to another FBS opponent that certainly would have had a winning record if they were FCS. I decided not to take that loss out, if I did, it would be 19-9.

Seems totally even, right?

[HookedOnGriz]

So Vigen has a whole 3 more wins over 4 years in your analysis? That backs up my point….that they are both on the top of the list when it comes to most wins in FCS over the last 4-5 years. It’s Vigen, Entz and Hauck. I’m surprised anyone got triggered by such a fact. I even gave Vigen credit said it seems they can both coach. He and the cats have to get over losing to North Dakota Stste six times in a row though. At least my Griz have taken it to the bison a couple times in the last several meetings.

[BelligerentBobcat]

So Vigen has a whole 3 more wins over 4 years in your analysis? That backs up my point….that they are both on the top of the list when it comes to most wins in FCS over the last 4-5 years. It’s Vigen, Entz and Hauck. I’m surprised anyone got triggered by such a fact. I even gave Vigen credit said it seems they can both coach. He and the cats have to get over losing to North Dakota Stste six times in a row though. At least my Griz have taken it to the bison a couple times in the last several meetings.

If you’d like that to be your takeaway, sure, go for it. When you dig into it, it’s pretty obvious that the 2023 season was an aberration from the norm for both programs, and that accounted for 8 of Hauck’s wins against teams with a winning record.

If you think having a normal discussion is being “triggered”, then you’re not actually trying to have a discussion. You can pretend you want to, but it’s obvious you don’t. You wanted to talk about how the schedules weren’t equal, and now that you see MSU has played more teams with a winning record, and won more of those games than UM, now we’re going back to total games. Can’t use those pesky conference schedules though, they just aren’t fair enough. Just move the goalposts until you win!

[iaafan]

The Grizz have finished 1st or 2nd once since Hauck got back in the saddle. Third twice, fifth and sixth. In vigen’s four years the Cats have finished either first or second every year. Hauck fifth, first, sixth and third. It’s not even close.

One of the years that MSU didn’t win the league was an anomaly; the one year UM won it was an anomaly.

2024 - um 5th, msu 1st
2023 - um 1st, msu 2nd
2022 - um 6th, msu 1st
2021 - um 3rd, msu 2nd
2019 - um 3rd, msu 3rd
2018 - um 6th, msu 4th

Cats below third once, Griz above third once.

Prominent wins by year:
Griz
2024 - Tenn. St, NAU
2023 - UCD, Idaho, sac, MSU, Delaware, Furman, NDSU
2022 - SEMO
2021 - Washington, MSU, EWU
12
2019 - Weber, SELA, EWU
2018 - SAC
16

MSU
2024 - New Mexico, UCD, um, UTM, Idaho, Idaho, USD
2023 - Weber, Sac
2022 - UCD, Weber, um, Weber, w&M
2021 - Weber, EWU, UTM, Sam Houston, sdsu
19
2019 - SEMO, UM, Albany, Austin Peay
2018 - UM, UIW
25

Vigen has 19 prominent wins to Hauck’s 12.

Can’t even believe we’re having this conversation.

[HookedOnGriz]

The Grizz have finished 1st or 2nd once since Hauck got back in the saddle. Third twice, fifth and sixth. In vigen’s four years the Cats have finished either first or second every year. Hauck fifth, first, sixth and third. It’s not even close.

One of the years that MSU didn’t win the league was an anomaly; the one year UM won it was an anomaly.

2024 - um 5th, msu 1st
2023 - um 1st, msu 2nd
2022 - um 6th, msu 1st
2021 - um 3rd, msu 2nd
2019 - um 3rd, msu 3rd
2018 - um 6th, msu 4th

Cats below third once, Griz above third once.

Prominent wins by year:
Griz
2024 - Tenn. St, NAU
2023 - UCD, Idaho, sac, MSU, Delaware, Furman, NDSU
2022 - SEMO
2021 - Washington, MSU, EWU
12
2019 - Weber, SELA, EWU
2018 - SAC
16

MSU
2024 - New Mexico, UCD, um, UTM, Idaho, Idaho, USD
2023 - Weber, Sac
2022 - UCD, Weber, um, Weber, w&M
2021 - Weber, EWU, UTM, Sam Houston, sdsu
19
2019 - SEMO, UM, Albany, Austin Peay
2018 - UM, UIW
25

Vigen has 19 prominent wins to Hauck’s 12.

Can’t even believe we’re having this conversation.

I literally didn’t read anything you typed. Your HDS is so through the roof you’re impossible to have a convo with. Good luck with that btw!

[coloradocat]

So Vigen has a whole 3 more wins over 4 years in your analysis? That backs up my point….that they are both on the top of the list when it comes to most wins in FCS over the last 4-5 years. It’s Vigen, Entz and Hauck. I’m surprised anyone got triggered by such a fact. I even gave Vigen credit said it seems they can both coach. He and the cats have to get over losing to North Dakota Stste six times in a row though. At least my Griz have taken it to the bison a couple times in the last several meetings.

Winning twice at home by a combined total of 5 points with one game going to overtime is not taking it to them.

The Bobcats and griz have the same number of wins against NDSU outside of the state of Montana this century. Zero.

The last time you played them in MT you won in overtime because they didn't convert the 2pt attempt. The last time we played them in MT they won in overtime because we missed the XP.

The last time you played them outside of MT you lost by 23. The last time we played them outside of MT we lost by 3.

[iaafan]

The Grizz have finished 1st or 2nd once since Hauck got back in the saddle. Third twice, fifth and sixth. In vigen’s four years the Cats have finished either first or second every year. Hauck fifth, first, sixth and third. It’s not even close.

One of the years that MSU didn’t win the league was an anomaly; the one year UM won it was an anomaly.

2024 - um 5th, msu 1st
2023 - um 1st, msu 2nd
2022 - um 6th, msu 1st
2021 - um 3rd, msu 2nd
2019 - um 3rd, msu 3rd
2018 - um 6th, msu 4th

Cats below third once, Griz above third once.

Prominent wins by year:
Griz
2024 - Tenn. St, NAU
2023 - UCD, Idaho, sac, MSU, Delaware, Furman, NDSU
2022 - SEMO
2021 - Washington, MSU, EWU
12
2019 - Weber, SELA, EWU
2018 - SAC
16

MSU
2024 - New Mexico, UCD, um, UTM, Idaho, Idaho, USD
2023 - Weber, Sac
2022 - UCD, Weber, um, Weber, w&M
2021 - Weber, EWU, UTM, Sam Houston, sdsu
19
2019 - SEMO, UM, Albany, Austin Peay
2018 - UM, UIW
25

Vigen has 19 prominent wins to Hauck’s 12.

Can’t even believe we’re having this conversation.

I literally didn’t read anything you typed. Your HDS is so through the roof you’re impossible to have a convo with. Good luck with that btw!

Your go to move is to say I have hds? You don’t have any evidence that backs your claim that they’re even. The only thing Hauck is even in the last four years is head to head. Fcs only it’s 46-8 to 39-15. That’s a seven game difference through 54 games. To put that in perspective it’s 1/3rd of a baseball season and if you carried it out to a full season Hauck would be 21 games out of first place.

We’ve sliced it and diced it every way possible, including your ways and you come out on the losing end yet you aren’t phased…speaking of deranged.

[iaafan]

So Vigen has a whole 3 more wins over 4 years in your analysis? That backs up my point….that they are both on the top of the list when it comes to most wins in FCS over the last 4-5 years. It’s Vigen, Entz and Hauck. I’m surprised anyone got triggered by such a fact. I even gave Vigen credit said it seems they can both coach. He and the cats have to get over losing to North Dakota Stste six times in a row though. At least my Griz have taken it to the bison a couple times in the last several meetings.

The only game that he was even close in was the double ot win. That ndsu team was unseeded but top ten just like sdsu in 2021. But Vigen won by two touchdowns. He lost by 20 on a neutral field to SDSU in 2023 and the cats lost on a bad call AT sdsu. You lost to sdsu by 17 thanks to 15 garbage points last year. Lost to ndsu by 23 thanks to a garbage TD. One fluke double overtime win thanks to your great punt return guy. That’s it. That’s all he’s got. His average finish in the BSC has been is fourth place.